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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
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    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeFeb 5th 2013
     
    New wind energy record for Great Britain

    4 February 2013

    A record amount of electricity has been generated by wind energy in Great Britain, according to National Grid.

    The new high was reached on Sunday morning, when wind generated more than 5 gigawatts for the first time – more than 12% of the nation’s electricity needs for industry, businesses and households – enough to power more than ten million British homes.

    It’s the first time that wind energy has exceeded the 5 gigawatt threshold in Britain.

    RenewableUK’s Deputy Chief Executive Maf Smith said:

    “This new record proves that Britain is generating an increasingly significant amount of clean electricity from wind. The quantity of low-carbon energy that wind is feeding into the grid is continuing to surge upwards. We’re set to generate at least 15% of the UK’s electricity from wind by 2020.

    http://www.renewableuk.com/en/news/press-releases.cfm/2013-02-04-new-wind-energy-record-for-great-britain
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeFeb 5th 2013 edited
     
    En without all the ones that have fallen down, amazing.

    I wonder how REF will interpret this
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeFeb 6th 2013
     
    How does this compare to solar PV?
    •  
      CommentAuthorted
    • CommentTimeFeb 6th 2013
     
    Small scale PV (< 5MW) totals around 1.5 GW capacity at the moment. Don't know exactly how much capacity the larger scale solar farms come to in total but I don't think it is all that much - maybe 100-200 MW.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeFeb 6th 2013 edited
     
    No idea how it compares, but I am a bit upset that they are quoting GW rather than GWh. You can work it out from their comments on how it was calculated:

    1. National Grid states that on Sunday 3rd February a new record of 5058 megawatts (5.058 gigawatts) of electricity was generated from wind, representing 12.28% of overall generation.

    2. RenewableUK has observed that over a two-hour period from 10:30am to 12:30pm on Sunday 3rd February, total metered wind output in Great Britain exceeded 5GW, reaching a peak of 5.058GW at 11:30am. Metered wind output exceeded 4GW over a ten hour period from 5:30am to 3:30pm.

    So lower bound would be greater than 96 GWh and upper bound would be less than 120 GWh

    There are no figures on the National Grid website for last Sunday, but there are for the same Sunday over the last 4 years.

    Generation was had a mean of 39.56 GW, or 949.44 GWh.
    The min was 29.05 GW and the max was 48.97 GW.

    The range was between 37.92 GW and 40.28 GW or 910 GWh and 967 GWh.
    As a percentage of total generation that is somewhere between 10 and 12.4%

    So the claim that 12% was from wind last Sunday seems very valid to me.
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeFeb 6th 2013
     
    Posted By: TriassicHow does this compare to solar PV?

    AIUI, PV is not usually included in these sort of numbers because it's not metered in real time and very little of it reaches the actual grid - most effectively reduces demand on the local network. Electricity which individual installations export tends to be used close by, by their neighbours.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeFeb 6th 2013
     
    Really? what kind of neighbours need lots of electricity midsummer mid day (not that many indoor swimming pools)? I understood that kind of surplus has to be stored one way or another 'on the grid'.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeFeb 6th 2013
     
    Well If you take my house, that has a capability of having about 1.2 kWp system on it, my base load is 0.1 kW, so nine of my neighbours could use it.
    Now if every house had a surplus that is a different thing.
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeFeb 6th 2013
     
    Well, neighbours with fridges, for starters. And people working at home, retired people, parents with pre-school children. And people who've thought ahead enough to have the washing machine run when it's sunny.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeFeb 6th 2013
     
    And people with the TVs on standby, the 5 to 10 W per wireless router (found a switch on my new one to turn the power down and I think it uses nothing now), not to mention a lap top always on, 20 to 50 W, a desktop even worse.
    Then the forgotten light on (my neighbour today, 6 halogen down lighters by the look of it), immersion heaters, kettles, I am amazed that my base load was only 100W.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeFeb 6th 2013
     
    So what's the ratio, on a fine PV daytime when demand is at its lowest - say 5 local PV installations keep the whole locality of - what - 50 houses? - fully supplied and not needing to draw from the wider grid? Alternatively, how deep into spring/autumn is it till 5 local PVs fully supply just 5 neighbours, daytime?
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeFeb 6th 2013
     
    Depends on system size and how much the houses use.

    Yesterday I used 25 kWh, the sun was not very good averaging 45 W/m^2 over the whole day, so at best I may have got 54Wh/m^2.
    So I would have needed about 500 m^2 of PV to satisfy just my load.
    • CommentAuthorjms452
    • CommentTimeFeb 6th 2013
     
    I don't really like this site (if you go the main pages you'll see why) but it has a great gridwatch tool.

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    If embedded PV (which doesn't show up on this as Ed pointed out) was filling all the demand them the demand would go to zero - This has happened in Germany I believe but in the UK this isn't going to be a 'problem' for some time.

    From the same website what is really impressive is that wind has been averaging about 4Gw for a week or so.

    I see almost 10% for a week as much greater milestone that 12% for two hours.
    • CommentAuthorjms452
    • CommentTimeFeb 6th 2013
     
    SteamyTea - you can download the data - you should like that :bigsmile:
    • CommentAuthorSeret
    • CommentTimeFeb 6th 2013
     
    There is a lot more domestic PV around these days, but I'd be very surprised if any of it made it back past the first transformer. Domestic base load is between 0.2-0.9kW, it doesn't take many neighbours to suck up all your excess even if you've got a big 4kW array. You'd be doing well to cover 10 adjacent houses on a sunny day, and there are far, far less than 10% of houses with PV.

    It's worth bearing in mind that a lot of wind (even quite large scale) is also "embedded" and so probably isn't showing up in the grid figures for wind output. The actual amount generated on Sunday would have been somewhat north of 5GW.
    • CommentAuthorjms452
    • CommentTimeFeb 6th 2013
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: Seret</cite>t's worth bearing in mind that a lot of wind (even quite large scale) is also "embedded" and so probably isn't showing up in the grid figures for wind output. The actual amount generated on Sunday would have been somewhat north of 5GW.</blockquote>

    Indeed - I read that anything less than 50MWp was rated as embedded! Do you have figure/source for the amount of embedded wind?

    cheers

    J
    •  
      CommentAuthorted
    • CommentTimeFeb 6th 2013
     
    Embedded Generation

    Embedded generation is generation directly connected to an electricity distribution network
    rather than the transmission system. In England and Wales embedded generation is less than
    100 MW in capacity while in Scotland the size of embedded generation varies from less than
    30 MW in the area covered by Scottish Power Transmission Ltd (SPTL) and less than 10 MW
    in the area covered by Scottish Hydro Electric Transmission Ltd (SHETL).

    Embedded generation is made up mostly of CHP, wind, biomass or other renewable generation.
    CHP makes up the largest part of this and output is expected to rise from the current level of around
    20 TWh to 31 TWh by 2030.

    Embedded wind capacity is expected to rise from the current level of 2.1 GW to 3.1 GW by 2030,
    with output rising from 5.4 TWh to 7.8 TWh over the same period.

    http://www.nationalgrid.com/NR/rdonlyres/86C815F5-0EAD-46B5-A580-A0A516562B3E/50819/10312_1_NG_Futureenergyscenarios_WEB1.pdf

    Those figures are a little over a year out of date.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeFeb 6th 2013
     
    Posted By: jms452SteamyTea - you can download the data - you should like that
    Better than what I have been doing, thanks for that link. Vile graphics though :sad:
    • CommentAuthorjms452
    • CommentTimeFeb 8th 2013
     
    Thanks Ted -presumably that means that we about 7GWp of wind in the UK?
    • CommentAuthorjms452
    • CommentTimeMar 22nd 2013
     
    From the gridwatch site it looks like we have just beat the last wind record:

    Demand 42.09, wind (non embedded) 5.22
    that's 12.4%

    including 2GW of embedded wind we can add at least another GW on (to both wind and demand)
    that's over 14%!

    probably lucky it's windy when the headline on the news was we only have 2 days of gas left (in storage presumably)
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeMar 22nd 2013
     
    Posted By: jms452probably lucky it's windy when the headline on the news was we only have 2 days of gas left (in storage presumably)
    And a nuclear facility has been shut down so the workers can go home
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeMar 22nd 2013
     
    I cant believe that a nuclear facility can be shut down that fast!
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeMar 22nd 2013
     
    Back up after lunch
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeMar 22nd 2013
     
    I suspect that it was well planned in advance, they have access to very good weather data.
    Though showing the vulnerability of a nuclear power plant to bad local weather may help EDF get £95+/MWh. Not that any responsible organisation would do anything as childish as that :wink:
  1.  
    Generating more from wind 5.21 than gas 3.98 at present. Who would have predicted that 5 years ago.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeMar 23rd 2013
     
    Can see the headline now "Windpower saves Britain from burning foreign gas"

    Still a lot of coal burnt, about 3 times as much.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeMar 23rd 2013
     
    Actually just seen the headlines:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/mar/22/wholesale-gas-prices-soar-after-pipeline-forced-to-close

    Bit perplexed as they claim that a therm (29.307 kWh) costs a quid normally and has gone up to £1.50, that is 5p/kWh. At £1/therm that is 3.3p. Seems a bit high for wholesale regardless of a pump failure and our low stocks.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeMar 23rd 2013
     
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21852449

    "..capable of powering five million homes."

    What's that equivalent to? The wind farms popping up in central england typically have around 4-6 turbines and supply about 3-5000 homes so the new nuke is equivalent to about 1000 - 1500 onshore wind farms (roughly)?
  2.  
    What a load of tosh. I could power 5 million homes with a push bike generator if the homes where built to passive house standards and fitted with there built in 10kw PV systems and backup batteries.
    • CommentAuthorjms452
    • CommentTimeMar 27th 2013
     
    http://www.renewableuk.com/en/news/press-releases.cfm/2013-03-23-record-breaking-day-for-wind

    Record Breaking Day for Wind
    23 March 2013

    Wind generates over 5 gigawatts of electricity for whole 24 hour period for the first time
    Enough to power the equivalent of 4 out of every 10 British homes
    Power was generated during one of the coldest March days on record and whilst gas price at 7 year high
    RenewableUK is celebrating the fact that for the first time, wind energy in the UK generated over 5 gigawatts of electricity consistently over a 24 hour period, with the period starting on Thursday 21st March 2013 at 9:30pm and continuing for the rest of Friday 22nd March 2013.

    This means that for this 24 hour period wind was generating enough to power the equivalent of nearly 4 out of every 10 UK homes and consistently over 10% of GB’s overall electricity needs.

    In addition a record for one-off generation in a half hour period was created at 1530 when 5.296GW of wind was present on the grid, alongside another anticipated 2GW from distributed wind.
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