Tue, 19 Dec 2023 08:28:02 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17941&Focus=303124#Comment_303124 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17941&Focus=303124#Comment_303124 Tue, 05 Sep 2023 11:40:51 +0100 greenfinger
Following my recent threads, I've started work today and am removing slates at a wall abutment to put in lead soakers and flashing.

Am I missing something obvious or is my only option to use a slate ripper and then use tingles (or hooks) when I put them back on?

I had planned to remove two or three vertical rows of slates, and - stupidly perhaps - thought that by starting at the top I could access all nails to remove them without a ripper, and when putting the slates back on re-nail them to the battens. But now I'm up there it seems in order to that I would have to remove the slates in an ever increasing triangle to access all the nails and battens.

Am I overlooking something? Or is a ripper (to take off) and tingles/hooks (to put back on) the only option to avoid removing a tonne of slates?

Many thanks

PS - from what I've read I'd favour using hooks rather than tingles.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17941&Focus=303133#Comment_303133 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17941&Focus=303133#Comment_303133 Tue, 05 Sep 2023 18:46:43 +0100 tony http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17941&Focus=303134#Comment_303134 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17941&Focus=303134#Comment_303134 Tue, 05 Sep 2023 19:31:41 +0100 greenfinger
In my case though many of the slates at the abutment need to be replaced either because of damage, or because they are not too short. The wall was previously rendered, so with the render removed the distance from roof to abutment wall has now increased.

Many thanks]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17941&Focus=303143#Comment_303143 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17941&Focus=303143#Comment_303143 Tue, 05 Sep 2023 22:50:07 +0100 tony
I would be OK with soakers bridging a small gap at the edge.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17941&Focus=303146#Comment_303146 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17941&Focus=303146#Comment_303146 Wed, 06 Sep 2023 10:03:37 +0100 greenfinger
I've got some more questions if you anyone could help please....

- Where I can only access one nail hole in a slate, could I add a second nail at the head of the slate so that it ends up being centre *and* head nailed but on one side only? To stop slate rotating?

- Come to think of it, if I centre nail slates at the abutment, the nail will go through the lead soaker beneath. Is this normal/acceptable? In one video I watched, the diagram showed the slates at the abutment being head nailed only. Not sure if that was just the graphic, or whether it is standard to JUST head nail these to avoid making holes in the lead?

- In either of the above scenarios, should I also add a hook/tingle as well for belts and braces? If centre and head nail is acceptable, would that be enough without a hook/tingle?


I should add that the roof is not all that visible. And it is quite sheltered and well protected from the worse of the weather.

Many thanks]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17941&Focus=303147#Comment_303147 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17941&Focus=303147#Comment_303147 Wed, 06 Sep 2023 10:05:09 +0100 cjard
Yep, exactly that if you want to do a proper job. Good opportunity to replace any weakened slates, knackered nails and split battens too; just launch into the job, starting from the top down, with enthusiasm and fervour and soon after you'll be done. It'll take no time at all to pull them off, stack them in the battens near to where they will be re-laid, and put them back later. When stacking, try about 8 to 10 slates put in the top of a batten gap and perpendicular to the roof, then fold them up to vertical and past vertical. They will start to slide down the vertical batten but when the lowest slate contacts the next horizontal batten down they will make a nice fanned stack. If you place them at the bottom of the batten gap then as they move vertical and past, the second lowest will jack the lowest out of the batten gap and slide it down the roof

In terms of getting them off, I used to be slow and careful, grinding the nail heads off etc.. Now i just put a claw hammer under the slate, fingers either side of the nail, on the side I can reach and waggle it to release that side, then use the slate itself as a lever to pull the other nail out. If the slate breaks, or the nail heads pull through the slate it was well on the way to being knackered anyway]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17941&Focus=303148#Comment_303148 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17941&Focus=303148#Comment_303148 Wed, 06 Sep 2023 10:13:47 +0100 cjard
One nail will hold a slate, the second is a backup. When correctly laid there isn't enough lap at the head of a slate for a top nail to reach the batten and have enough meat of slate to grip on. The top of a slate only overlaps the batten it tests on by a quarter of an inch or so (and you can't hole a slate at 1/8th inch from the edge and drive a nail into a batten 1/8th inch from the edge and hope it will hold)



"Come to think of it, if I centre nail slates at the abutment, the nail will go through the lead soaker beneath. Is this normal/acceptable?"

Yes, because the hole that nail makes is overlapped by another soaker and slate, and there is already a hole in the slate immediately above the hole you make in the soaker, with the nail. You aren't worrying about this hole in the slate

"to avoid making holes in the lead?"

Soakers are merely bendy slates that end up with holes in them at the same distance under the overlapping protector as the non bendy slates they are adjacent to. You aren't worrying about the slates having holes at that location; you don't need to worry about the soakers having holes in them in the same location


"In either of the above scenarios, should I also add a tingle as well for belts and braces?"

No, because they're ugly as sin and last nowhere near as long. Use a Hall hook if you must]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17941&Focus=303166#Comment_303166 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17941&Focus=303166#Comment_303166 Wed, 06 Sep 2023 16:09:55 +0100 greenfinger
I appreciate your faith in me! But for reasons I won't bore you with, I'd prefer to stick doing it the quicker and easier way. Sorry to let you down ;)


I've got the slates off - some I saved, others broke. My battens are only 35mm wide, so on top of what you said above, I don't think my head nailing idea is a very good one for that reason too.

I'm going to use tingles where the roof cannot be seen from below. If it's out of sight I can't see the harm. Is it usual to use code 3 or 4 for lead tingles?

Cheers]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17941&Focus=303169#Comment_303169 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17941&Focus=303169#Comment_303169 Wed, 06 Sep 2023 18:04:16 +0100 tony http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17941&Focus=303173#Comment_303173 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17941&Focus=303173#Comment_303173 Thu, 07 Sep 2023 06:39:56 +0100 cjard
Stripping the triangle is the quicker and easier way. I understand your perspective - I used to think the same.. but the amount of time one spends messing about with a slate ripper, breaking slates, breaking battens, jiggling the replacement slates back in, cutting and fitting tingles, 20 rows could have been off and stacked in about an hour, and the end result much nicer. The roofers on diynot said the same from experience.. If I was repairing one small patch, then sure I would rip and tingle, but work on every row's a different story

At the very least, pony up for hall hooks; they're only a quid each, and you have to look really closely to see them, unlike tingles.. Tingles look awful]]>