Green Building Forum - Products

LWA's (Light Weight Aggregates) for insulation?

Johan — Tue, 04 Sep 2007 11:48:15 +0100

Has anyone got any experience with using LWA's (Max-It, MillCell, Misaphor, etc.) for ground floor insulation? Max-It (also known as LECA) has been around for 30 odd years, so should be fairly tried and tested by now! The other ones seem like a really nice way of recycling old glass bottles! :smile:

They look like a very nice product to me. Needs to be a slab type floor though, but for a new build that's not really an issue.

I'm considering using one of them so I'd appreciate any input.

Water Efficient Loo

Neil K — Sat, 18 Aug 2007 20:13:16 +0100

This is not a post to read when you are about to eat. You have been warned!

I am looking to source 3 toilets for a new build and obviously they will need to be dual flush and preferably with low overall water requirements, but this leaves a problem... or more accurately I don't want them to. i.e I want a low flush loo that clears the toilet bowl properly.

I am in a rented house at the moment and it would probably win an award (if someone was sad enough to invent one) for the worst flushing toilet in the world. I am keen to avoid buying the latest version of this turd stirrer, hence this post. The problem with it being that I don't want to have a toilet that uses less water per flush, but has to be flushed twice to clear!

I have been to my local builders merchant and they seem less than keen on letting me try the stock out (which I can understand!), but I am not sure if there is a standard for this sort of thing that I can seek to use in a spec. Clearly the industry standard isn't good enough because if it was good enough I wouldn't keep seeing turds left behind!

Any ideas?
:confused:

Airtight cat flap

Neil K — Mon, 27 Aug 2007 20:46:33 +0100

I never thought I'd need to put up a post about this, but since my wife came supplied complete with an attached cat I am having to get used to the joys of having one about. (A cat that is)

We are planning our airtight house, so I am trying to source a cat flap that will be as airtight as the rest of the house. There are the usual flaps marketed as airtight, but as far as I can see they rely on a brush seal. My experience of these is that if the cat comes in on a windy day the flap does not lock shut, so the brushes don't have any effect. Heavier flaps seem to result in the cat struggling to open it against the weight (but it did look fitter for a while!)

Has anybody found a solution?

I have been thinking about some form of air lock with dual doors, long piped runs or even a fully electronically actuated solution..... I am resisting the cat/brick/sack/canal solution. :wink:

Glad of some input here.

Neil

Warm edge spacers - rip off prices?

Marc Palmer — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 17:05:30 +0100

Hi,

Our joiners have spoken to their glass supplier to get relative prices for SGG low-e glass vs SGG's warm edge spacer units and they have said there is approximately a four-fold increase in price.

How can this possibly be? Are they shafting the high-spec green market?

Also I read on a page about SuperSpacer that "once the outside temperature dips to -17.8C outdoors condensation will form on double-glazed glass even at only 15% humidity internally". If this is the "big sell" for warm edge, why am I even bothering? I don't see us having -17C in Gloucestershire for the next 10+yrs ... The Day After Tomorrow it isn't quite.

Can anyone explain this ludicrous pricing, explain whether I -really- would benefit from warm edge (timber frames with multiple small panes so a lot of edge). If they improve the efficiency significantly fine, but if they're only to stop theoretical condensation and silly low temperatures, surely there's no point especially given the apparently huge increase in cost.

Looking for an eco friendly clear woodstain thats uv resistant

simonzz — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 14:03:29 +0100

I've just put my money where my mouth is and splashed out considerable moolah on a solid cedar garage door. I was intent on treating it from the outset on an eco friendly natural woodstain. Unfortunately I have only come across natural woodstains with UV protection when they have some pigmentation added. It appear that clear woodstains do not offer this protection. I don't really want to add colour to the door since the cedar looks suprb as it is.
Does anyone know of a natural treatment that does offer UV protection? Otherwise I'll have to go down the Sadolin route.

Air Flow windows vs Mechanical Heat Recovery Ventilation

fostertom — Tue, 07 Aug 2007 12:59:24 +0100

Time I took the trouble to understand Air Flow windows - www.dwell-vent.co.uk with www.howarth-timber.co.uk. Can anyone explain?

Green Adhesive

MrT — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 12:01:43 +0100

I'm looking to use cork as internal wall insulation, it's cheaper then wood fibre. As cork looks nice I'm thinking of leaving it exposed and unsealed. This will mean using an adhesive to fix it to the walls and possibly some galvanized nails to improve stability. The supplier recommends using cold mastic to fix the boards to the wall but I'm wondering how green this stuff is. Auro produce a latex based adhesive which is expensive but may do the job.

What experience/advice have people got on green adhesives. One major benefit I can see is no drilling into my walls and improved air tightness/cold bridging.

I want a tap that turns itself off & doesn't brake after 3 months

Katymac — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:32:55 +0100

I'm on my third
I know they save water - unless they brake & then pour water down the sink until someone notices

Please can someone reccommend a good one that is indestructable

We are taking 2 & 3 yos here - so we do need very robust equipment:wink:

Multi fuel burner - external air feed

Neil K — Tue, 03 Jul 2007 23:28:49 +0100

We will be building a very airtight house with GSHP, mechanical heat recovery etc. I do, however, like the idea of a wood burner/multi fuel burner for occasional use.

Does anybody know of a suitable small unit that comes able to take air directly from outside the house, burn in it, and then put it out the flue? The idea being that the burner will not be using the air from the house which will then need to be replaced by air from the cold outside (i.e. needing to ventilate our nice airtight house)

Can anybody point me to a supplier.... or even warn me off following any problems/experiences with this?

Thanks,

Neil

Petrochemical products

Mike George — Fri, 20 Jul 2007 14:53:21 +0100

I am starting this thread as the subject was beginning to hyjack the warmedge spacer thread.

My question is this? Which petrochemical products are acceptable for use in the building industry. In particular, is it okay to use insulation derived from oil while condemning the use of upvc windows? Are there other oil based products which are acceptable? Has anyone considered a ranking order of 'plastic' no-no's

My opinion is that I would much prefer to use naturally derived products, not oil based ones. However the reality is that these are often unaffordable or impractical in use. Hence, I use them.

Solar Slates

JennyField — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 23:26:28 +0100

Has anyone any experience of using solar slates or tiles as opposed to panels for hot water production? I have found one manufacturer/distributor on the internet with useful information - Solex Energy Ltd. The National Trust use solar slates but their projects will be considerably larger than ours. Help appreciated.

Insulated faÃ§ade systems - Suppliers?

alexc — Mon, 04 Jun 2007 17:28:03 +0100

Hi,

I am interested in finding off-site constructed insulated faÃ§ade systems for multi-storey buildings, such as Kingspanâ€™s offsite system (http://www.kingspanoffsite.com/afs/index.html). Does anybody know any other suppliers?

Thanks

alex

underfloor heating and luquid screeds

andyowen — Mon, 09 Apr 2007 08:44:56 +0100

anyone out there with good or bad experiances after using these 2 products?
:cry::bigsmile:

How good is Thinsulex?

PDobson — Sun, 13 May 2007 12:23:03 +0100

Does anyone know how different/how much better Tri-Iso super 10 would be compared to Thinsulex used in combination with 70 to 90mm PU foam in a warm roof setup with 150mm rafters. Does anyone see a problem with the scenario shown on the Thinsulex web site with the Thinsulex directly trapped between the rafter and the plasterboard without the use of counter battens. This scenario seems to cut about 25mm from the roof depth â€“ not much I know but every little bit helps.

If Tri-Iso 10 is much better and I am missing out by not using it perhaps I should ditch NHBC who wont let me use it. Does anyone know if Premier or Build Zone are more amenable to new materials?

Grey water- advice sought

Peter_Shield — Tue, 10 Apr 2007 19:13:13 +0100

I have an isolated property fed from a mountain source in Les Corbieres, Languedoc. The climate here is getting dryer, and hotter- indeed we have not had good long rain for nearly 14 months. With 200 olives, a young orchard and a small but thirsty vegetable garden, water is becoming a key issue. The first step is to fit guttering and water butts to collect what rain we do get, that is underway, the next point is what level of water can we recycle and how. We already use a basic system, a bucket, of using the kitchen water for the loo. However I need to do some plumbing work to get the back boiler and solar water heating systems installed, at the same time I would like to install a grey water capturing system on the kitchen sink, shower and bathroom basin- can someone point me in the right direction to find more information on how grey water works- because I have a septic tank there issues with what products we use in the kitchen and shower, we tend to only use â€˜naturalâ€™ cleaning products, can grey water be used to irrigate an orchard or is purely for the loo?

Thanks for any ideas.

Peter

Water stain and Eco Paint

Paul_B — Thu, 29 Mar 2007 10:55:59 +0100

Morning all,

Firstly some practical help please. How can I cover a water stain in the ceiling so that I can overpaint with emulsion? I have purchased some Auro White Emulsion paint which goes on very well if a little smelly. However, the water stain is coming through, can someone recommend an green way of stopping this? Most suggestions I have read on Google suggest solvent / oil based solutions.

On a slightly broader topic what are peoples experience with so called "eco" paints? I have used Auro for emulsion and painting the shed which has stood up well over the winter and just looks like it needs a clean for spring. It certainly hasn't peeled like I have seen on the commercial shed / fence paints.

Finally, the white emulsion is quite smelly having quite a strong orange smell. I am going to try the onion and vinegar / bread trick for the second coat.

Rigid insulation offcuts

mook — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 15:16:51 +0100

Anybody got any good ideas how to use up offcuts from fitting rigid insulation. I insulated under my floor and I now have a large quantity of pieces about 1.2m long 20cm to 30 cm wide, Kingspan 75 mm thick.

I can use some to make a insulated lid for my compost heaps but unless I can think of something creative the rest seem destined for landfill.

Rape Seed Oil Boilers

Mike (Up North) — Mon, 07 May 2007 11:42:59 +0100

Hi, Has anybody looked at the Rape Seed oil burning condensing boiler from Atlantic. It was at Eco2007. Its bright yellow so hard to miss.
Iâ€™m familiar with the Atlantic R-22 series boilers, this is new from them and I hope to speak to Atlantic soon and would like to have some informed feedback.
Main concern would be the supply of Rape seed oil, and aside from turning the country side yellow any other problems. Iâ€™ve seen car conversuion kits which look like simply

Thanks for any comment

Mike (up north)

Mixing and matching insulation good or bad?

Mike George — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 19:14:36 +0100

Hi,

I have been debating this idea with a colleague and would like some other opinions:

Is it a bad idea to mix insulation such as mineral wool and PUR in a warm roof applicatIon. Specifically mineral wool between the rafters and t&g PUR over the top? I have always avoided this but I am being told that there is no problem, any thoughts?

Does Insulation Offgas?

ecopaddy — Fri, 16 Mar 2007 14:00:18 +0000

Hello.

I am looking to insulation a floor area that will have underfloor heating on top of it. I have read in a number of articles that synthetic insulation such as polyurethane, phenolic, polystyrene, etc offgas.

Is there actually any documented research on this area?

If so, I would like to know what type of substances they offgas and what the possible health implications are.

I would consider natural alternatives in the first place but based on the thermal conductivity, the natural insulations seem far less effective that the synthetic variety.

Thanks,
Paddy.

Timber flooring

Jason H — Fri, 20 Apr 2007 15:52:22 +0100

Old floorboards shrink, revealing gaps between them that get all gunked up. There are loads of nasty things to fill these gaps up- is there a green product like a wax that will harden?

Breather membranes

Julian — Fri, 23 Mar 2007 11:13:54 +0000

Timber frame extension: trusses at 600 centres, reclaimed concrete Double Roman 50's.

Is Tyvek really worth the extra money or are you simply paying for the DuPont brand? (The nice people who make the Teflon that's sprayed on my kids school uniforms). There's a range of prices for these membranes; are the cheaper ones less breathable than the Tyvek?

Julian

Eco-virtue through use of tiny amounts of oil

fostertom — Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:49:12 +0100

From http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=15&page=4#Item_10 :
Insulation has a unique position, when considering its embodied energy/petrochemical content.
It's unique in that lighweightness is its essence, so in a way the less of the petrochemical stuff there is in it, the better it works. At any rate, accepting a relatively tiny amount of 'eco-nasty' petrochemical material as insulation can result in such enormously 'eco-virtuous' petrochemical in-use fuel savings, that the former is so vastly outweighed by the latter, that it's almost riduculous to insist on sheeps wool or something.
By all means, if sheeps wool etc does as well, then why not go for it - but on the whole the non-petrochemical alternatives
need greater thicknesses therefore more of other materials to create the necessary void space to fill
don't have fringe benefits like ease of ensuring no gaps, membranes/airtightness etc
cost more
are much more palaver generally.

Katymac said:
>Isn't Hi-tec expensive?<

Hi-tec can be ultra-cheap, when mass demand makes hi-tec robotised manufacture worthwhile; this phenomenon is well known in computer chips, computers as a whole and electronics in general - there seems no end to the freefall of their price:performance ratio.
In the past, materials (big quantities of), assembly (labour to be paid) and distribution dominated the price of goods. These costs were hard to reduce dramatically and still are, for traditional hardware, buildings etc; even for hi-tec engineered goods.
In a modern hi-tec (typically electronic) product, what you're buying is mainly the costs of design/R&D, marketing and distribution. Hardly at all material costs because so little is used, ever-reducing assembly costs because labour cost is replaced by the finance cost of buying sheds full of robots. That's when economies of scale and automation can really kick in.
Watch the same happen with PVs, which, being just big electronic components are ideally suited to the same.
Hi-tec isn't just electronics - it's anything where little material is used, and robotised production can be applied. E.g. insulation.

The advantages of using sheepswool - Heat of Sorption?

Mike George — Mon, 26 Mar 2007 23:21:31 +0100

I came across this term on another thread. If I have got this right It relates to the 'warming effect' of natural wool when it becomes wet. This does ring true in that I can remember many fishing trips when I got an old wooly jumper wet and still felt warm.

My question is this, Do we think this is a further advantage in using this kind of natural insulation?

Esse W23 - opinions sought

Alan Culverwell — Wed, 11 Apr 2007 04:14:32 +0100

John I hope you stumble across this... how is your Esse w23 going?
I am confused about outputs...
The Rayburn 355SFW puts out 55 000 Btu's, 16.1 kw as apposed to the Esse W23 that puts out 23 000 Btu's, you may stand to correct me, but the Rayburn seems to be more efficient in comparison.
It seems to me that the Esse w23 will not put out enough to heat our underfloor and radiators?
Alan

sheeps wool

mook — Mon, 26 Mar 2007 19:10:37 +0100

my apologies if this has been done already... perhaps i can be pointed in the right direction (confusion between forums)

i am *considering* sheeps wool insulation for a coffee shop refurb. i'm less interested in its thermal properties but more interested in acoustic performance. i need 100mm batts for a false ceiling between floors (35 sqm) and partition walls (10sq m).
has anyone got any experience of its effectiveness in this kind of application?
... also would its moisture retention properties help improve the climate in the building?

at a good deal more than twice the price of say acoustic rockwool i'm struggling to justify the expense.

are there any other environmentally friendly alternatives i may not have considered?

Corrosion Inhibitors for heating systems

Keith Hall — Mon, 26 Mar 2007 18:57:45 +0100

Manufacturers of these products are claiming that heating systems that are power-flushed with a cleansing fluid after installation and treated with corrosion inhibitor can perform far far better. One claim suggests that radiator outputs can be almost 200% better (article in PSLG mag Feb 2007) and also claim that boiler efficiency in untreated systems can fall by over 6% within three weeks.

My system has a massive water quantity -> 500 gallons so I've not done added any inhibitor but what is in this stuff made of and how can owners of large biofuel heating systems with accumulator tanks address the situation if the claims are true?

Icynene's GOLD SEAL 400

ecoworrier — Thu, 01 Feb 2007 18:15:23 +0000

Does anyone have any information on a supplier for this product,
it looks pretty useful.
Thanks in advance. :-)

Biodiesel Generator

Katymac — Fri, 02 Mar 2007 07:45:33 +0000

Someone (I can't remember who...sorry) Suggested a biodiesel generator for the nursery

Is this a practical option - does it provide electricity? How would I use that to heat the nursery?

Would it need filling like a car engine or would it be attached (like an LPG tank)?

Any ideas?

New tech insulation v's older materials

Tuna — Mon, 05 Feb 2007 10:13:22 +0000

To continue the multi-foil discussion(sorry !) and after learning about hemcrete, the following struck me..

Some of the claimed benefits of hemcrete focussed on insulation. Thermal scan images of two identical homes, one built with traditional materials, the other with hemcrete, showed the traditional home leaking heat. The explanation seemed to be that around openings and between floors, the traditional insulation materials tended to leave gaps or sag. Air gaps also encouraged dampness and so thermal bridging. The argument for hemcrete was that, as a rigid packing material it performed significantly better than traditional materials, even at thicknesses that performed averagely in hot box tests.

Sound familiar?

I wonder if the real world benefits of some of the 'newer' insulation materials are simply based upon the fact that they can be installed as a larger continuous surface that resists sagging and thermal bridging due to dampness? Are our traditional builds actually under-performing by some significant margin, allowing 'marginal' new technologies to match their in-situ results? Should our hot box test involve a hot box that more closely resembles an entire room - with all the detailing and openings and other real world issues?