Tue, 19 Dec 2023 06:21:49 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3543 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3543 Tue, 10 Feb 2009 09:25:44 +0000 CionMac http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1841 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1841 Mon, 02 Jun 2008 18:02:18 +0100 langst My cocerns are whether the system will heat the house well enough even though we do not have the heating set to high temperatures. Any info I have, and from discussions with the firm giving a quote, the figures are all based on Sweden or northern climates. Will the difference between outside temperature and house temperature be enough to generate the energy for our hating. Also the water temperature figures range from 35-45c therefore requiring an alteranative way to boost the water temperature if needed.
Has anyone fitted such a system to an 'old' radiator system in the S.W.?]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3477 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3477 Tue, 03 Feb 2009 16:05:33 +0000 TheDoctor
we have a 210L megaflow HWC in the roof. we tried, but there was no room within the insulated volume of the house without ripping out and re-planning a perfectly serviceable bathroom.

it works fine - seems efficient, and i have been relatively dilligent in lagging all pipes to and from the tank.

however...we had a drop of snow this week (anyone notice?!)

house was toasty, and the snow lay deep and crisp and even on the roof


except...one neat spot directly over the tank. boo.

are there any inherent problems with creating an all-encompassing insulated jacket for the whole shebang - tanks, pipes, etc to further insulate the insulated tank?

there was also an a bit of melt around the chimney, but the fire hasn't been out for a week, so i'm not unduly surprised!]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3436 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3436 Thu, 29 Jan 2009 18:00:37 +0000 sanje48 We are in the process of rebuilding a house in central italy. the construction is reclaimed stone from the original demolished building on the outside face, then anti seismic poroton bricks, 10 cms of insulation and another thin inner layer of poroton finished with cement plaster. the house will end up being 190m2 finished internal size. the house is on a south facing hillside.
We are planning to use underfloor heating and want to use use wood as our primary heating source as it is plentiful and cheap there, supplemented with solar panels for summer hot water (and hopefully contributing to winter space heating). We are considering either a 'Vulcano' fire insert with a back boiler which would be sited in the living room or a wood gassification boiler (in an outhouse) from either Viessman or alternatively Kotly from eastern europe since it is far cheaper and we are being crippled by the fall in the value of the pound. I have heard that we could have issues with the overproduction of hot water in the summer if we have enough solar panel size to make a generous contribution to winter space heating. How does one overcome that one?
Should we use flat plate or vacuum tube collectors? Or what about the Solartwin option including a PV pump?
What size thermal store would we need and would we need a separate store/ accumulator for DHW ?
Would it be a good idea to buy all our equipment including the UFH from Viessmann since it seems to be a co-ordinated system?
Does anyone have any experience importing from Kotly?
Does anyone have recommendations either generally or specifically regarding the type of products to use?
And finally ANY contributions will be very gratefully accepted
It is difficult to find people in our area of Italy who are really familiar with and competent to install a system along these lines. We are getting masses of conflicting information and everyone wants to charge us a fortune. Our budget is limited and shrinking due to the aforementioned fall of the pound. We would like to make the system as efficient as possible obviously but also as simple as possible.
Thanks.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3483 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3483 Tue, 03 Feb 2009 19:49:52 +0000 Mark Painter
Comments please]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3052 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3052 Sat, 29 Nov 2008 20:30:26 +0000 Matt
Now, the house is mainly double glazed, 50% 150yr old solid wall/50% 2 year old cavity extension - but almost nil loft insulation etc due to a crap conversion.

Radiators are fairly new, and fitting UFH would be very expensive (solid stone floors downstairs it seems), so ruling out ASHP or GSHP due to poor CoP.

But- they have a pond 20' from the house (over narrow country lane). Now the pond is on farmland, and they *think* they could get permission to use it. I needs a clean/trees pruned back etc - but,it could be great for water source heating. I guess I am wondering if a 'cheaper' installation is possible (minimal digging, less pipes etc etc) and much better max CoP, meaning that use of radiators is possible, albeit with a much lower (but still good) CoP. Clearing the trees would also throw significantly more solar gain on the house from the South...

Last option is new oil boiler, lots of loft insulation and couple of new windows/doors, and start saving for solar thermal asap.

Thoughts on water source+rads....?]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3480 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3480 Tue, 03 Feb 2009 18:20:05 +0000 visitor
I am in the final stages of planning for my renovation. The plan is to insulate insulate and then insulate as per Tony's advise :) I'll be installing 3g windows, internal and external insulation so that all external walls get close to 0.17 u-value. I am planning to install UFH on the ground floor. Because the floor there is concrete I will be installing a "overlay" system from a known supplier. I would also like to add UFH to the 1st and 2nd floors for the bath and bed rooms. I have not seen the thermal loss figures from my architect yet but I would bet that there will be a need for heating there. Forgot to mention that there will be a whole-house MVHR system. I will have tower rails in the 2 bathrooms. I would like to get advise on how to approach the heating. I would like to have ET solar thermal and maximize the use of that. I would like to have a thermal store and feed UHF, DHW and the tower rails. Is running a hot water loop with a flat plate exchanger for DHW and the tower rails a good idea? I've been told that I will need a gas boiler. How can I integrate that into the system so that it is used to a minimum? My ideal system is ET thru a plate exchanger heating the store. A boiler heating the top of the store. DHW loop. UFH from somewhere close to the bottom of the store. Forgive my ignorance on the subject but this is my first dab into renovation.

Cheers,
Ivan]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3467 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3467 Mon, 02 Feb 2009 18:20:33 +0000 MarkBennett
Heat sources:
Solar thermal
Back up boiler (either mains gas or GSHP)
Wood stove (no back boiler)
Drainwater recovery

Heat sinks:
Underfloor heating
Domestic hot water
Towel rails in bathrooms
Small indoor swimming pool (http://www.endlesspools.co.uk/index.html or equivalent)

I'm thinking of using a large cylinder, with heating coils from the solar and backup boiler, storing the water at a fairly high temperature which I think is fairly normal. (2 coils so far.)

The stove is really for decorative use and the one we're looking at doesn't provide the option of a back boiler. It won't be on all the time but will kick out a fair amount of heat once it's going.

Underfloor heating would be taken from a coil inside the tank and mixed with return water to stop it getting too hot. Again, I think fairly normal. (3 coils so far.)

In theory I think the towel rails could be heated from a separate coil, or from the same coil as the UFH with a mixer set to a different temperature. I hope that the latter is possible to simplify the system. (3 coils so far.)

I'd like the DHW to be supplied from a feed-through coil in the thermal store so that it is still mains pressure. I don't think this is very unusual either. (4 coils so far.)

The pool will be small (about 9m3), indoors, well insulated and will be heated to around 28C. Normally this is done through it's own gas or electric heater, but I'd prefer to tap it into the whole house system to take advantage of solar,
at least in the summer. I'm hoping that this could also be heated from the UFH/towel-rail coil using a heat exchanger. The large thermal mass of the water should mean that this can be lower priority to other heat sinks, and could be controlled to stop heating the pool when it has drained too much heat from the thermal store, even if this means the pool isn't at target temperature. (Still 4 coils so far.)

The final complication is that I'm considering the use of drainwater heat recovery (we mostly take showers) with a system like that offered by http://www.shower-save.com/. The mains cold water goes in one end and the pre-warmed water from this would directly feed the cold tap for the shower and the DHW input to the thermal store. In principle this seems fairly simple, and doesn't complicate the thermal store.

Does this sound like a good way of setting the system up?

Is it going to be difficult to balance all the sources/sinks so that we have something comfortable?

Is there a better way of doing it?

Thanks very much,
Mark.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3448 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3448 Fri, 30 Jan 2009 21:55:00 +0000 Karhedron
We are in the process of extending our house, and we have to get rid of our nasty old boiler. We were planning on going for a straight condensing boiler, but then, having done a bit more research, we're not so sure. We want to put in solar water heating - could we use this for house central heating too? WE have a fab south facing roof that get the sun almost all day. However, if it is possible to run heating off of the sun, we would still need something for during the night. We've heard about air source heat pumps, but can't really find anything out about them. If we got one, would we need a conventional boiler too, or would it be instead of? How do they work? Do they take up much space? Does anyone have an idea of costs? We've planning permission for a single storey rear and side extension to our 1930's semi. We'd like to fit a green roof on the extension, and have underfloor heating - would the heat exchange/solar thing work? We've been told that Thermomax are a very good brand of tubes - does anyone have any experience or advice? Would we need a water softenertoo (we live in Basingstoke, which has the hardest water in the UK).]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3446 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3446 Fri, 30 Jan 2009 20:36:38 +0000 jonl
I am designing campsite chalets - each 65m2 will be heavily insulated although main use will be in Summer months in Italy so reasonably warm - I will be building these myself.

I would like to offer clients a very basic "green" airconditioning although this is really a grand title for the very cheap and basic arrangement I have in mind which would really be nothing more than a fairly weak air chiller to lower room temperature to bearable limits on really hot days. I am looking to fabricate pretty much the entire set up myself - I have good engineering facilities ( machine shop tools ) - nothing complex no electronics just a fan, ducting, heat exchanger and a pump.

Early ideas revolved on nothing more complex than buried air ducting powered by a fan to utilise ambient soil temperatures at a depth of say one metre. I have to dig to build anyway so may as well bury pipes. Since then I have looked at closed loop water based systems but I dont want to stray too far into areas of complexity since I am really looking at a self fabrication here - its so easy to start with a simple idea and snowball into something much more complex than necessary.

I would re-empathsise I am not seeking to give clients super chilled hotel type aircon I am merely looking to take the worst out of uncomfortably hot days - if its 30C outside and I can chill a super insulated chalet down to 25C then thats fine - its a campsite not the Ritz :-).

I do have the option of using a swimming pool as a heat dump but this is over 300m from the chalets and I feel that trying to get really smart and tying different heat processes together may look good on paper but the practical aspects of a constantly evolving campsite may actually favour discrete indepedent components.

Can anyone recommend books on the matter that are more "Dick Strawbridge" than high end domestic technologies? I am looking here for a book that could layout scenario calculations, give rough guides
to flow rates and energy consumption.

Thanks in advance

Jon]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3407 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3407 Tue, 27 Jan 2009 16:30:59 +0000 pantasarus
I now have a very stupid question for everyone.

I have UFH in the main part of the house, rads in the (hardly used) guest extension and a desire to add solar or ghsp at a future date. In the meantime though, I need to chose a boiler setup for the house - something that I know sweet fa about. I've recommended a greenstar 30CDi linked to 250l unvented indirect cylinder. What I'm after is a system with low running costs, high efficiency and easily adaptable in the future. Will this do it, or is there a better system?

And now for the silly question. Is it better to have one boiler for all three, or three boilers where each does just one thing? In an ideal world what would be your perfect setup?

(I told you I knew nought!)

P]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3421 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3421 Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:48:06 +0000 NoviceDIYDude
I'm fitting a new bathroom suite in my 1930's semi. I've decided on tiles for the floor but don't want people getting cold toes.

I'm looking to use electric underfloor heating and see many brands and a couple of different types are available.

I'm looking for some first hand experience on the matt's/wire type, and possibly recommendations in terms of a brand/model.

Also, how much should I pay a sparky for parts and fitting of:

3 spotlights
Low voltage fan above shower
Connecting the underfloor heating / controller (but not laying the matt's)

Best regards]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3417 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3417 Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:21:13 +0000 ludite
Got an internet site for the eco fan 802 priced at £122.59 and gyroscope.com does the heatwave fan for £137.01

Both still seem expensive to me, and does anyone have a personal recommendation of which is best? Heatwave say they are twice as good as the eco. . . .. . .

Have I mentioned too many brand names? If so, sorry.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3345 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3345 Tue, 20 Jan 2009 23:04:58 +0000 Tuna
Our primary heat sources will be solar hot water panels on the roof (flat panels are a planning pre-requisite) and an LPG combi boiler for backup (we bought a Glowworm 24cxi combi boiler for our caravan 18 months ago and intend to transfer it over to the house rather than buying another new boiler).

Now the question is, what's going to be the best way to design the heating in the house.

We think that it makes sense to warm our home with underfloor heating on the ground floor and a heat recovery ventilation unit to redistribute heat around the house. Upstairs we think we can live without direct heating, though will probably install underfloor heating (and towel rail) in the bathroom.

The living room is approx 18 foot by 13 foot, so from this page http://www.metaldevelopments.co.uk/woodwarm/calculator.asp we get an estimate of 3kW heating from the stove. That's quite a little stove for a big room. We could use a bigger stove and rely on the heat recovery ventilation to take some excess heat and transfer it to the rest of the home?

It makes sense to have a thermal store to combine at least the solar and LPG heat sources, and provide mains pressure hot water for showers. I'm really not sure on sizing, but various sources seem to suggest something like 450 litres will be more than adequate for the hot water load, whilst buffering the underfloor load to a lesser extent?

We could use the woodburner with a back boiler to generate hot water and space heating around the home. Some (such as this one http://www.wodtke.com/momo.html) have a 70/30 split, with 70% going to the boiler. That would make sense given the relatively low heat requirements of the living room. Unfortunately the thermal store will be sited some distance from the woodburner (10 metres or so horizontally). Common advice seems to be that stove heaters cannot be pumped safely. However, DPS suggests a scheme for pumping with a vented, gravity circuit for fail-safe operation. See Overheat Protection using a Plate Heat Exchanger nearly half way down the page - http://www.heatweb.com/Wood/index.htm

So, does that all make sense? There are probably a dozen different ways to do it, but this seems to work to me. We're not aiming for zero carbon heating - rather the goal is to reduce the load as much as possible (well insulated, airtight house) and supplement a reliable, low cost LPG heat source with opportunistic solar and wood burning.

Some questions that come from this are - what size panels should we use? Am I right in thinking we can run a thermal store off a combi boiler by plumbing it through the central heating circuit on the boiler? How do we get a heat recovery and ventilation system designed and installed at a sensible cost (best quote so far is £6K - though I think it would be quite practicable for me to install it myself, which would reduce the price by a useful amount)? What other stove options are there? Does the cost and complexity of plumbing in a wood burner outweigh the benefit it provides? With a young family and a demanding business to run, we're not likely to run the stove every day during the heating season, but this system seems to offer the best means of taking advantage when we can light it.

Any thoughts, comments, ideas, suppliers, warnings?]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3410 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3410 Tue, 27 Jan 2009 20:20:07 +0000 fyall http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3376 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3376 Sat, 24 Jan 2009 07:56:16 +0000 cookie
I would like to use an internal coil type heat exchanger for my DHW but I’m worried the stratification effect will be damaged and all I’ll be doing is turning my thermal store into a conventional hot water tank. Will the convection effect (cooler water now at the top of the tank will sink) make stratification pointless?

The coil will only be in the top of the tank.

Has anyone seen a plate heat exchanger mechanically driven by the pressure of the DHW (I think its against the water by-laws or something)? If not someone get your patent pad out!

Does anyone know how to calculate the temperature at different heights of a tank as it cools or is heated up? Tank height say 2 metres?

Why internal coil….
I’m making it myself (I’m from Yorkshire, enough said)
I don’t want an additional pump because I’ll be off grid electric

Cheers Cookie]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3392 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3392 Sun, 25 Jan 2009 23:42:36 +0000 dave45 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3284 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3284 Mon, 12 Jan 2009 22:41:00 +0000 red http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3318 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3318 Fri, 16 Jan 2009 10:41:13 +0000 mward
Last night I was having a discussion with someone that claims to have saved about 1/3 on their gas bills by putting a Tadpole (www.tagonatadpole.com) in their heating system. Having had a look on the website, I am intrigued by the claims made for the device, though a little skeptical - has anyone had any experience of them? How much of the benefit comes from the device, and how much from the attention given to the heating systems when it is fitted?

Any thoughts?]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3332 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3332 Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:10:28 +0000 John Wolfendale http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3316 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3316 Fri, 16 Jan 2009 00:33:50 +0000 Rex
I have had a spanner thrown in the solar works by the possibility of installing an ASHP running on E18 (apparently.)

But how noisy is an ASHP? It would be positioned where we are unlikely to hear it, but I think if may disturb the neighbour..

Rex]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3293 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3293 Tue, 13 Jan 2009 22:18:24 +0000 kirstycain http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3301 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3301 Wed, 14 Jan 2009 17:08:32 +0000 John Wolfendale http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1356 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1356 Wed, 05 Mar 2008 22:31:57 +0000 greenpc
we're building in the scottish borders, small plot, well insulated house and have essentially decided on using an air source heat pump for heating (ufh) and dhw.

big players up here seem to be the respective sales agents for nibe (fighter) and thermia (atria) heat pumps, with little to choose in terms of COP, size of pump or even cost - 6-7K after grant.

anybody got good or bad experiences of these respective heat pumps? I have little doubt these are quality products up to the job, but I am also aware there are many other players coming onto the market, and difficult to escape the notion that the generous scottish renewable grant of 33% simply inflates prices by around 33%...]]>