Tue, 19 Dec 2023 06:07:23 +0000 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16947 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16947 Sat, 27 Feb 2021 10:08:27 +0000 Diarmid http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16904 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16904 Mon, 25 Jan 2021 11:38:09 +0000 Benm85
New to the forum, so apologies in advance if I've not posted correctly or adhered to forum rules (although I have read them!).

We have a thermal store (Gledhill 350 Sol) connected to gas boiler (Intergas Combi Compact HR30/36) and solid fuel stove (Dunsley Yorkshire). Try to keep the TS at 70c (according the the central thermostat) as advised, but the house is struggling warm enough on cold days. The radiators are hot at the top but are at best luke warm at the bottom. It is a dual zone system for upstairs and downstairs.

I'm not sure if it's a balancing issue as there isn't one particularly really hot radiator stealing heat from the others. The whole house was also replumbed about 4 years ago, so I would be surprised if it needs a 'flush'.

I'd be interested and highly appreciative of thoughts on the radiator temperature issue, especially how to solve it!]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16886 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16886 Wed, 13 Jan 2021 13:55:06 +0000 JoeSmith
Can anyone explain to me how these government funded/subsidised heating schemes work? I don't know if they're worth investigating. I've looked into a few but can't tell if they're genuine or not or whether we're going to qualify or if they're even available locally to us. There doesn't seem to be any consistency.

We live in a G2 listed, cob, thatched house in Devon. We have an oil tank that feeds an old oil boiler that we're looking to replace and relocate. We also have single glazed wooden windows and half the loft space is insulated.
I keep seeing adverts on social media and elsewhere for companies offering government funding for improving the situation with free insulation/ground source heat pump/windows etc or a contribution towards them. Of those I've contacted all that's happened is I've just been told there's nothing they can do because we're listed. Others seem to be dependent on our postcode or financial situation and some claim it doesn't matter where or who we are. We've even replied to a couple of ads for local "heating survey" people but neither of them have responded to anything.

Is any of this worth looking into? We're going to replace the boiler with an oil combi boiler which isn't cheap but if the government are willing to contribute to something it'd be silly not to look into it. Can anyone give me any pointers?

Many thanks in advance.
Joe]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16865 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16865 Thu, 31 Dec 2020 10:39:37 +0000 greenfinger
This time I'm curious as to what temperature the body of your stoves get to (anyone use a thermometer on the stove itself?). And/Or - if you've read the manual that came with it - what the manufacturer species as the maximum? The reason I ask is because we've narrowed our search down to the Woodwarm Fireview 5kW Slender. I was reading through the manual online and it says the maximum is 230C. That seems quite low to me. A quick glance at some of the stove thermometers out there and I see they show an optimum burn range. One has this at 150-300C, another at 200-350C. The Woodwarm made thermometer shows up to 300C as optimum!

For the record, the manual I was reading refers to the whole range of Fireviews, which has models up to 20kW. So the 230C max. applies to them all. And the manual goes on to say "...avoid continuous running at the maximum..."

Does anyone have any thoughts as to whether a maximum 230C body temperature is low and whether that will affect performance? I appreciate a lot goes into the design of wood stoves and there's a lot more to them than the statistics. And I've also read many glowing reports on Woodwarm; often mentioned in the same breath as Clearview. Nevertheless, this surprised me.

Ta]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16861 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16861 Mon, 28 Dec 2020 22:52:44 +0000 greenfinger
I'm looking to have a wood stove installed soon. We're pretty much decided on a Woodwarm Fireview 5kW for our living room. It was a close call between that and the Clearview Pioneer 400. With a Charwood Cove 1 coming in at third place

I was watching all of the videos on YouTube I could find earlier showing the Fireview in action and was surprised by how noisy it is. Pings and clangs and noises like that aplenty. I then read up on the subject and can see that this is to be expected as the metal expands and contracts. But when I was watching videos of other stoves (mostly Pioneers), they didn't seem anywhere as noisy as the Woodwarm.

I wondered if anyone with a Woodwarm or Clearview could pitch in on how noisy your stove is? If anyone has (or has had) both, then it would be great to hear from you as to how they compare. More generally though, any experiences of wood stove noises would be of interest. If the Clearview is significantly quieter, that would be another point in the "Pros" list and a step off the ropes.

Many thanks]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12698 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=12698 Tue, 21 Oct 2014 19:12:13 +0100 chippyclaus http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16874 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16874 Sun, 03 Jan 2021 18:29:17 +0000 greenfinger
I was in a local stove shop before Christmas looking at their stock and discussing all things wood burning... One of the things the chap said was that they anticipate a nightmare situation (and lots of customer complaints) in 2022, when all they can sell is the EcoDesign Ready stoves. His reasoning was that:

- They will have poorer draw. He showed as the top of one EcoDesign stove which had a baffle very close to the flue outlet, designed as such to meet the criteria for emissions.
- They will be a lot harder to get going, partly due to the draw and partly due to the fact that the flue will heat up less (and slower).
- They will be much less forgiving on wood quality.

Obviously this is only one person's opinion. And the more cynical side of me wondered if he perhaps had an agenda to try and sell off more non-compliant stoves (to shift stock before the deadline), or to gain a quick sale. Equally possible that he was just being honest and sharing his knowledge though.

So to the stove aficionados on the forum who have already been helpful with my other WBS questions - and anyone else who cares to join in - I'd love to hear your opinions on this....

One other thought is whether anyone thinks there might be penalties or levies in the future for people burning wood on non-EcoDesign ready stoves. I appreciate no-one has a political crystal ball, but any musings are most welcome.

Cheers, and happy new year :bigsmile:]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16842 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16842 Tue, 15 Dec 2020 14:05:51 +0000 Cerisy
Firstly, we will replace the MVHR unit next year - an old Titon unit - with one that allows us to use summer by-pass when we need it rather than the machine deciding for us. This will allow us to move some of the daytime heat out during the cooler evenings. However, one of the big heat sources in our house is the solar-panel fed 400l hot water tank that gets pretty warm in the summer, just when we don't want a big "storage radiator" in the house. I was thinking yesterday of maybe installing an extension to the extract ventilation system into the airing cupboard to extract some of the heat - usable in the winter months and with the summer by-pass in operation, a chance to remove some of the heat in the summer.

Any thoughts guys?

Thanks, regards, Jonathan]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16813 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16813 Wed, 25 Nov 2020 11:47:02 +0000 Fairynuff We are fully renovating Devon cottage constructed of local stone (more like slate), cob to hold it together, and lime which had been badly renovated and overmaintained since the 60's so its a complete gut job with reinstatement of walls, roof, floor and windows.
I would have liked a ground source system but we have had to locate the new septic tank drainage field across most of the ground and I dont think we have sufficient area remaining so I'm investigating air to water heat pumps but we like open windows, winter and summer and from my investigations this doesnt appear to match well. We have mains gas, but I was hoping for a greener solution
Any comments would be greatly appreciated.
:bigsmile:]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16805 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16805 Wed, 18 Nov 2020 13:54:26 +0000 revor http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16382 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16382 Sun, 05 Jan 2020 22:31:06 +0000 Kieranf Hoping you kind folks could answer a few of my queries regarding my proposed hot water/heating system.
I have bought a pile of stones in a field in Sicily which once upon a time ago was a house, I have one room habitable and a second one soon to be finished. In the next few weeks I intend to install a hot water and space heating system. It is a temporary set up until I finish more of the house, so temporary meaning several years.
Plan as follows:
Morso Squirrel wood burner (4kw) with 8000btu back boiler in one room for space heating and to heat 300lt direct vented thermal store with combination F&E tank located in neighbouring room on gravity circuit. 1.5kw Heat leak rad in room with the TS.
Additional solar heating to be added next year.
Wood burner will run 24/7 in the winter.

Questions:
1. How/where to vent the primary circuit? Outside? Direct to the f&e tank or will the TS self vent to the f&e tank in the unlikely event of boiling? Does it require a T&P valve or tundish?
2. I presume 8000btu is roughly 2.5kw to water is this correct? I want to be able to drive the wood burner hard often, if the TS has reached temp will the little Morso be able to get the heat leak rad hot? Would I be better off with a smaller heat leak rad and space heating the second room with rads on their own gravity circuit?

The aim is create a simple gravity system to space heat two rooms and provide hot water.

Also, we are off grid, only solar for power.

Many thanks in advance.

Kieran]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16782 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16782 Fri, 06 Nov 2020 15:16:46 +0000 Silky
The overall wall+facade build-up gets pretty massive ( 1/2 metre deep or more ) so I don't fancy trying to put pipes through there later on. I'm imaging an idea now, that I put something like 50 mm PVC pipes in the facade and wall as I build up, then just leave these capped off. Later on they could take the pipework for the heatpump and be closed up with something. If the heat-pump is changed or there is a problem with the pipes the holes could be cleaned out and re-used. Did anyone do something like this, think it is a good or bad idea etc..? Have never installed a heat pump...yet so need to ask for the 'unknowns']]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16776 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16776 Mon, 02 Nov 2020 22:09:09 +0000 Justin R I'm thinking of installing an electric boiler to heat the radiators in our old cottage in Scotland, using the electricity from a mini-hydro scheme which should produce 3 or 4kW
While the 4kW will apparently be plenty to cover the 33,000btu’s required, someone told me (and I think you will too) that I'm going to have a problem with efficiency trying to run the heating at such a low level.
I notice that when I use the sizing calculators on the manufacturers websites what’s being recommended for a boiler is something between 12 and 16kW
This suggests that for some reason, or reasons, heating a house with radiators must be done at high water temperatures for short stints, which fits with the typical arrangement of heating on a timer twice a day rather than continuously.
Why is it always done like that? And why can’t you simply run your radiators at a lower temperature but for the whole day (using a low powered boiler) like with under floor heating?
Alternatively are the boiler and radiator size recommendations based more on the ability to heat the house quickly from cold but then the actual kWs used to maintain that heat are much lower?


A couple of other points I should mention:
Assume we are off grid with a back-up generator for all intents and purposes.
I realise we will have to design in some storage, to deal with other typical peak loads, but I’m trying to minimise this as much as possible (batteries expensive, accumulator tanks big). If I can heat the house using a couple of kWs continuously rather than storing and using the heat in high temperature bursts it would make things much simpler.
Radiators and pipe-work (mostly 22mm) are already in. Some rads a bit small.
Not much insulation (roof plenty, underfloor plenty, none in walls) and old thin double glazing.
Probably can’t afford a heat pump, but the electric will be close to free and close to green so who cares?

Any thoughts or solutions would be much appreciated. Even if it’s that using an electric boiler is a stupid idea in the first place!
Cheers
Justin]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16435 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16435 Fri, 31 Jan 2020 13:51:27 +0000 philedge
Anyone got any recomendations on good systems or any to avoid??]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16765 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16765 Wed, 21 Oct 2020 22:22:19 +0100 jamesingram https://heatpumps.co.uk/]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16755 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16755 Wed, 14 Oct 2020 16:07:16 +0100 lookseehear
First post here - hoping to get some feedback on our thoughts about replacing a >30 year old oil boiler with an ASHP/GSHP in the house we're prospectively buying (a couple of weeks from exchanging).

Firstly, a little about us - we're a young family (my wife and I and two children, 3 and 1) and although being cost efficient is important, the most important thing for us is going to be a balance of comfort and convenience. I want to try and avoid the inevitable arguments in the years to come about where to set the thermostat, which has led us to AS/GSHP because we love the idea of keeping the house at a steady temperature year round with constant heat. I've been doing a lot of research on the subject but I'm still struggling a little with viability.

We are buying an old house which we believe the oldest part is likely to be 18th century, with 0.5m thick stone wall construction. I understand that stone walls aren't good insulators but are good heat sinks, so the last thing we want to be doing is trying to heat the house up in a hurry. It's a 5 bed detatched, approx. 180 m2. It needs more loft insulation which will be the first job when we move in (sheeps wool looking most likely) up to 300mm. The house is double glazed and although not a hugely drafty house, it's not that airtight either and we're likely to improve the ventilation.

Doing some calculations on the heat loss calculator (https://www.resurgence.org/resources/heac.html) seems to indicate that the total heat lost during a typical year might be in the region of 35,000 kWh, and that the peak power output required of a heating system would be c12-14kW. Using the 'rule of thumb' on this resource https://synergyboreholes.co.uk/information/calculations/ seems to indicate that more like 22kW of power output would be required in the coldest periods to maintain 20 degrees in the house. There's a massive discrepancy here and the last thing we want to do is under-spec a system. 12kW looks to be achievable for ground source or for air source.

For a ground source system, we'd have to look at either one very deep (~200m) or two shallower (~100m) boreholes (using 35w/m of collector) which would probably be feasible, but more than two boreholes would be difficult from a logistical and cost perspective. We would prefer ground source for potentially higher COP and higher RHI payments to offset the higher cost of installation.

For air source, there seems to be a decent amount of choice at the 12kW-14kW including Ecodan which appear to be highly rated and we wouldn't have the same space concerns.

The property has solid floors and is slightly split level, but I've assumed we could probably fit wet underfloor heating next year to take advantage of low-temperature heat, but currently the house has decent size (but not 'oversized') radiators in all rooms.

All this to say does anyone have experience with ground source or air source for a similar property? Can anyone offer insight on whether 12-14kW is likely to be sufficient, paired initially with radiators then subsequently with underfloor heating?

Thanks in advance for reading this.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16347 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16347 Sat, 30 Nov 2019 19:40:07 +0000 HoveTom
My floor joists are old and small compared to newer ones at around 100mm, so I thought of using internal angle bead (the stuff you put on the corner of plaster board before you skim it) to support the rigid Kingspan type insulation instead of wooden battens.

This means I can use 70mm of insulation rather than just 50mm with a wooden batten and still leave enough gap for ufh and a dry screed.

The internal bead is galvanised, seems very strong when screwed in, cheap and smaller than a traditional batten.

Is there any reason I haven’t considered why this is a bad idea?]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16662 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16662 Sun, 19 Jul 2020 21:15:58 +0100 NRDigger
Hi all, OK so new member here.... I've done a fair bit of reading but am starting from quite a low base knowledge wise, and would hugely appreciate any advice on the following!

We currently live in a reasonably large detached 1920s house in Norfolk. Mix of solid and cavity walls. Good loft insulation. Double glazing. EPC grade C. Suspended floors which I plan to insulate at some point, and we’re looking at options for the walls also. Some of it is much newer construction so obviously much better insulated.

Heating use currently is about 15000kWh/year currently provided by a 40kW Baxi Gas Combi boiler. Probably installed around 2011/2012. But unfortunately located in one of our upstairs bedrooms (lazy previous owner, builder who had clearly bought it and done things to a 'standard'... a low one...).

No underfloor heating but rads are generally reasonably sized (and we are changing a few as we go anyway) and I ran the boiler at 50c flow temp over last winter and kept us warm enough. We are 18c people rather than 25c people, if that makes sense.

We have a 4kW Solar PV array also.

I have only ever lived in houses with combi boilers so have no experience of tanks or system boilers. Nor, indeed of ASHPs.... which is the reason I'm here!

We are planning to do some reconfiguration work upstairs (resizing a bathroom, putting up some partition walls, etc) and at the same time I would like to get rid of the combi boiler in the bedroom and place it somewhere more sensible - possibly the loft?

Except, of course, options seem much more complicated, as we'd also like to become a bit more green in the process!

I came across the Daikin Hybrid Heat Pump system which includes both a gas boiler and 8kW ASHP and this seems a reasonable system. I reckon I could get the gas boiler in the loft and we’ve got a few potential sites for an ASHP which I don’t think would be too problematic for the neighbours. There's an Ebay seller who is putting these packages out at less than £4k which doesn't sound bad. The presence of the boiler gives perhaps a bit of comfort if things get really nippy outside and of course means no tank. Anybody used this set up? And are Daikin the only people making this pair in this way? Is Daikin a reputable company? Are these easy enough to get fitted?

Of course we could also put in a tank somewhere and then presumably get an ASHP to run both DHW (??) and heating, and get rid of a fossil burner completely.

Or I could get a hot water tank, some kind of system boiler (is that right?), and an ASHP as some kind of bivalent (?) system.

Please be gentle if I’m using a vocabulary that stretches beyond my knowledge – I guess I really just don’t appreciate the various benefits of the different setups, and, before I go asking for quotes I really want to know what I’m asking for rather than to end up with the installer’s personal preference.

So I guess my main question is, if you were in my shoes, what would you do, and why? I know experience is a great teacher and I suspect people on this forum are a lot further down that road than me...

Primary considerations include:
* Installation cost
* Operational effectiveness and efficiency for heating
* Longevity and need to service
* Simplicity
* Actual ‘green’ impact

Thank you so much!]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16457 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16457 Tue, 11 Feb 2020 07:42:49 +0000 ryanp I have had conflicting info off of installers with some saying it will work and others saying not. Your comments are welcome.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14811 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=14811 Thu, 05 Jan 2017 22:26:04 +0000 cubbs
Iv enot been on here in a good while. I finally got our house up and running with an oil boiler heating my thermal store

I know theres a lot of variables but could it be possible to generate enough electric from Pv panels to run an airsource heat pump here on Isle of Man? Im sure theres some experts out there that would know the figures?

I am tempted to buy solar thermal panels to connect to my store but id like to keep my options open

Thanks]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16692 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16692 Mon, 17 Aug 2020 20:54:08 +0100 Victorianeco
It has a 40mm exhaust which can be plumbed into standard waste pipe. What is the best method to make a condensate trap so that I can duct it to a sink or perhaps a plasterers bucket instead?

Trying to dry a floor but there are no nearby windows that open]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16648 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16648 Wed, 08 Jul 2020 17:24:09 +0100 djh
https://www.theengineer.co.uk/water-filled-glass-loughborough-university/

"The water-filled glass system involves connecting the water-filled window panels to a storage tank using pipes embedded in the walls, so fluid can circulate between the two. This system allows the ‘Water Houses’ to cool and reheat themselves, without needing an additional energy supply for most of the year.

"When it is warm, the buildings stay cool as the water absorbs external and internal heat; this warm water is then circulated to the storage tank.

"According to Loughborough University, the heat is stored in the tank and, if the temperature drops, it can be brought back to the walls to reheat the building using a monitoring system similar to central heating. Alternatively, the stored heat can be used for hot water supply."]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16536 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16536 Mon, 27 Apr 2020 16:58:30 +0100 Charenteman I am seeking some wise advice on a proposed heating, cooling and hot water system.
I live in the south west of France and have been working on a renovation scheme to what were (and are still in part) very dilapidated farm buildings since 2004!
I am recently retired and now resident here and seeking to finish the project while I still have a little energy left!
Holiday time over this 15 yr period has allowed us to restore one 2 bed house in which we currently live. It is served by a 300l Akvaterm Solar sealed thermal store on the first floor, heated by a single solar panel (no room for another) and a wood burning stove in the living room below (with Laddomat), with 2 x 3kw immersion heater back up.
Whilst down in the south west, it can get very hot here in the Summer and seriously cold in the Winter.
The system works reasonably well, but is let down in the Spring and Autumn months when it is either too warm for the stove or not quite warm enough for the ST panel particularly when the sun is not shining – causing undesirable and expensive need for electricity back up!
I am now turning my attention to the proposed adjacent principal residence conversion – a property on 3 levels – planned for 3 bedrooms and two bathrooms on first floor, living rooms and shower room on ground floor (with semi basement below) and kitchen/dining on lower ground floor to the rear.
The first floor and ground floor are both suspended timber.
As the other house, the walls are 600mm solid stone, that I am lining with insulated studwork.
Many years ago I and the wife laid a piped underfloor heating array to the insulated concrete kitchen floor before covering with a screed – the pipes are still sticking up waiting for the manifold that is currently sitting in a box under the bed!
I want a more flexible, controllable and efficient system here and am scratching my head a little as to the way to go.
Gas is most effective/instant, but it would have to be LPG and of course it is not green - and its days are arguably limited and LPG is expensive – nevertheless, an option even if only a back up when it is really cold.
Solar Thermal - plenty of space and good aspect on this roof, so definite potential.
Solar Voltaic – don’t know much about these or how they connect into/form part of a combined system?
Air Source Heat Pumps – seem very popular around here for the small square newbuilds, but have picked up on lots of bad press as to (lack of) performance, very high maintenance costs and disappointing running costs, enormous radiator sizing – not convinced that this is the solution on a property of this size and construction?
Cooling in the summer (40 degrees) is also a consideration - I think these ASHPs can work in reverse?
Ground Source Heat Pump – too late, external works now sorted!
Wood Stoves with back boilers – we will have a stove in the living room and down in the kitchen, but loading them with logs for reliance on hot water supply is hard work in the Winter and we are not getting any younger, so I do not see these as being planned as a fundamental part of the CH/HW system. I had also understood that a thermal store had to be physically above such stoves to allow gravity circulation in powercuts – that will not be achievable here as I would ideally like to locate the hot water cylinder in the semi basement.
So, my initial thoughts are as to a very large pressurised thermal store (TS) or hot water cylinder in the basement, fed by any/all of the above (save the stoves), providing mains pressure hot water, with heating to radiators generally and to the underfloor heating in the kitchen only – whatever the solution, it has to be reasonably simple, cost efficient and low maintenance.
I’d be very interested and grateful for advice on what combinations the forum members have found to work well or not so well, so here’s hoping!
I guess that this ground will have been trod before so any pointers to earlier similar discussions would also be appreciated.
Thanks.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16623 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16623 Thu, 25 Jun 2020 14:49:27 +0100 Morven
1. Infrared heating panels. We'll have solar PVs, though obviously they won't help us due to the seasonal misalignment, so I'm calculating all electricity units at full price, so around £525/y at current prices. System outlay costs look to be around £4000 for 10y warranty German panels. I like this option due to its simplicity and lack of maintenance, plus it can be done post-completion, so saves a big CH system expense during build budgeting. My concerns are the risks of big bills if electricity bills go up and I'm unsure about their expected lifespan.

2. 5kW ASHP + wet UFH ground floor slab. Quotes for this are around £12000 (Ecodan 5kW). We're not competent DIY-ers so wouldn't be happy putting in the system ourselves. RHI payment estimates vary between £2500-£4500 over the 7 years. It seems questionable whether the ASHP CoP (I'm guessing 3) electricity savings plus RHI will make this option pay-off, even if the ASHP lives 20-25y. I'm not enough of an UFH convert to go for this option for the feel alone.

3. Nilan MVHR with integrated air-to-air HP. I've pretty much ruled this out as though it's a nice compromise in being affordable but still offering the CoP electricity savings, I'd be nervous of relying on air heating.

Questions, which I'd really appreciate your help on:
Does anyone know the average lifespan of infrared panels?
Is it a bad idea to go for a direct electric heating option in a house with this heating input requirement?
Is there a more affordable small ASHP option?
Does anyone know which end of the scale (£2500-£4500) is most likely for our RHI? I believe it will be based on our final EPC certificate which may well overestimate heat requirements, am I right?
ASHP lifespans seem to vary between 10y and 25y, depending who you ask. What are the opinions on here?
Do those of you with ASHPs recommend annual servicing? If so, what's the cost?
Is there a way of doing an ASHP + wet UFH system without a thermal store/HW cylinder or would I need to allocate the space for a tank?
Plus, correct me if I'm wrong to rule-out the air heating HP option.

Any advice will be greatly welcomed. I'm new on here, so go easy on me!]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16571 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16571 Sat, 23 May 2020 11:23:41 +0100 gyrogear This stove can take air out of the room, or optionally can be ducted.

I suggested piping air direct to the stove, from a wall intake made in the basement out to the garden.
I aleady have a large floor-opening that will allow this...
Also, the same opening would allow the stove secondary offtake to also throw heat into the basement...

The vendor seems to prefer making the penetration through the lounge wall (gable) at stove height, two meters to the side of the stove, and fitting an intake register. Thus indirect air feed. I'd still get the basement heat feature, though.

I don't much fancy having free air streaming into the room at low temps; also my EWI gets involved at this location (whereas in the basement I would be under the line of the EWI).

Would be grateful for members' experience or feedback.

gg]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16553 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16553 Sat, 16 May 2020 12:17:02 +0100 philedge http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16542 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16542 Thu, 07 May 2020 02:58:51 +0100 wookey https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/future-support-for-low-carbon-heat
We have until the 7th July 2020.

I've not looked at the details yet. Has anyone else? I expect it to be massively disappointing as BEIS really don't seem to have any idea what actions commensurate with 'declaring an emergency' might look like.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16510 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16510 Tue, 07 Apr 2020 19:38:48 +0100 HoveTom
My question is; If I lay an 18mm Ply subfloor on top of these joists, and then add an engineered parquet block on top of this, say 15-20mm thick. Is that too much wood for the ufh to work? Ie 18 + 15-20 = 33-38mm thick.

Most of the ufh companies say 18mm is the max for wood. But that basically rules out any parquet due to needing a sub floor beneath it. Yet every wood shop has an engineered parquet block of some sort for sale which they all say is compatible with ufh. How!?

Will it work and just take longer to heat up? Which I don’t see as a problem if I get used to the warm up times and adjust the timer, Does it therefore also take longer to cool down? Or will it just not heat the room?

Does anyone have any experience of engineered parquet blocks with a subfloor beneath and ufh?

Many thanks.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16537 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16537 Tue, 28 Apr 2020 13:39:39 +0100 Victorianeco
How would you zone it? Ideally according to John Cantor the whole house should be on at the same time running at the lowest water temperature required to maintain the desired temperatures. The rooms are as follows:

Openplan Kitchen/Diner - UFH
Hallway - UFH
Lounge - Radiator
Dining Room - Radiator
Bathroom - UFH
Bedrooms - Radiator
Attic conversion - Radiator

The Ecodan has 2 zone options, it's currently set as rads on one zone, UFH on the other but the dynamics have now changed.

How does just having 1 stat set in the hallway (a traditional approach) sound and all run together? KISS]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16518 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16518 Mon, 13 Apr 2020 13:57:45 +0100 LaFeeMelusine Thanks]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16245 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16245 Tue, 17 Sep 2019 09:58:06 +0100 mattgoss
I have a factory-made 18' x 8' brand new garden room. I’m making it into a fully-fitted office/studio with 2 rooms:
– studio for artists work
– kiln room (a pottery oven that gets hot)

Our goal is to have a warm workspace and protect our investment.

Roof: (see picture)
– Sloped
– Shed roofing felt on timber decking
– *unvented* (some air seeping in front and back but I’ll seal it)
– 65mm rafters (not very deep!)

Ceilings – (the plan for)
– Plasterboard connected to the rafters in the kiln room (special fire-retardant board on all ceilings/walls in the kiln room)
– Wood cladding connected to the rafters in the studio room
– Ceilings are low - we don't want to make them much lower

For insulation, my research has found these as the 'best' options:
– Warm Roof solutions – not ideal for us
– Cold Roof + Closed Cell Foam – too expensive


I'd like to find the next-best thing - can you please help? :-)


Q1) Ceiling Insulation
– I've been told not to use rockwool style insulation in an unvented roof. Rockwool themselves say it's a condensation risk and that I *can* used their product, but I must usage a smart-VCL with it.
- Celotex told me not to use their product unvented.
- I've had other suggestions a thin layer of EPS across the rafters, no VCL, and either Rockwool or EPS in the rafter cavities.

Note: Ceiling covering in studio room – We want wood cladding but because it's not air tight, the general recommendation is an airtight layer first like plasterboard. However we don't want to eat into our internal space too much if possible...

What do you think we should do for the ceiling insulation?

Q2) Wall insulation – our current plan is:
Rockwool batts filling the cavity
+
Tyvek Airguard Smart (like membrain) VCL
+
interior wood cladding.
Again the wood cladding has an impact -- it is used both as the exterior wall and the interior wall, so we're especially concerned about moisture getting in there.

What do you think we should do for the walls?

I know that whatever the product, doing a great job of air sealing it and installing it properly is the most important.

But we are drowning in conflicting views - Thanks in advance for your help!

Matt]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16464 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16464 Mon, 17 Feb 2020 13:30:55 +0000 jhsigma http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16452 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16452 Fri, 07 Feb 2020 16:52:36 +0000 ryanp http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16354 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16354 Fri, 06 Dec 2019 18:02:41 +0000 Herodotus
The concern I have - largely driven by advice from suppliers/plumbers here - is that it's a really bad idea to mix circuits that contain air with UFH - because it's a recipe for corrosion, part failure and things filling up with sludge; this would imply that it's a bad idea to pump the water from the main tank directly around the floor if it's also being used as the drainback circuit water. Is this something people here have opinions on?

Assuming that it *is* a bad idea, do people think I'd be best off moving to an isolated circuit for the solar - I could make my own drainback vessel easily enough and put a solar coil in the main tank; or should I extract the heat from the tank for the floor using a coil instead? I'm still toying with the idea of making the main tank myself so I'd potentially have some flexibility in this regard.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16437 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16437 Sat, 01 Feb 2020 09:31:13 +0000 WeeBeastie
The Daikin Ururu Sarara has an outdoor unit noise level of 46dBA which seems quite a bit quieter than a Mitsubishi Ecodan at 58. Setting DHW aside, any thoughts on these units?]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16414 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16414 Thu, 23 Jan 2020 11:23:11 +0000 diydaddy50 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16410 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16410 Wed, 22 Jan 2020 08:56:49 +0000 Victorianeco
Can anyone recommend an up to date storage heater or if not just a reasonable quality electric radiator to be used when required?

Thanks]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16322 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16322 Sun, 10 Nov 2019 19:01:09 +0000 Victorianeco
My question is for a mid terrace floor will 50mm PIR insulation suffice and a 50mm self leveling screed on top? Just trying to work out what depth I'll need to dig out to keep the reception rooms level.

My other question is the front door is original timber and then there's the second door. This area is unheated at present, should I run the UFH in this area or is it just wasted heat? And what's the best perimeter insulation and thickness as I will need to tile or vinyl over it I guess.

Also what floor coverings does one suggest to create a 'grand' entrance?]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16404 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16404 Sun, 19 Jan 2020 15:09:18 +0000 gyrogear
Per the installation manual (pages 23 & 24) he is surprised to see no system to control the return water temperature (such as a Thermovar or a Laddomat) and he is wondering if this is standard UK practice ?

The manual shows a thermosiphon secondary circuit for safety in event of a circulator fault, then the circulator itself on the main circuit, controlled by a simple thermostat located on the return side of the secondary circuit.

So basically he is not sure how to proceed - he was effectively planning for a thermosiphon, but is having second thoughts that the return might be too cool (hence dew-point problems and corrosion...)

Any inputs gratefully accepted !

gg]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11672 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11672 Tue, 28 Jan 2014 09:52:39 +0000 andyman99
My initial concern is the main bedroom which sits above a double garage. I have been squeegeeing the windows most of the winter and I’m starting to get fed up with the early morning ritual and also concerned at potential problems due to the high humidity. My thought is to install a single room unit in the ensuite and hope that this will also reduce humidity in the bedroom. Some of the threads I have read appear to suggest that this might happen and I wonder if anyone who has installed one could comment? The bedroom is of course a far bigger area than the ensuite, but since I hate noise at night I don’t think I could put up with a unit in the bedroom.

I don’t understand how the in and out air is separated, but was wondering if creating an additional air path between the rooms would help? Assume door to ensuite open when not in use then would a “return path” from the bedroom via additional ducting help. This would be easy to do without any major disturbance as shower backs on to bedroom cupboard and holes could easily be created.

Should I be looking for an unbalance system to force more air movement? The 2 rooms are as far as I know devoid of major leaks but I don’t know how air-tight they really are yet.

Andy]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=5455 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=5455 Sat, 06 Mar 2010 21:37:47 +0000 rangichangisam we are currantly transforming an old wooden bungalow into two storey chalet that is sufficently insulated to meet building reg standrds. It will have 4 bedrooms and one large living area.
We are keen on ASHP but worry the noise will upset the neighbours.(next door is 3ms away) I have read the ASHP produces around 49db but how long each day will the ASHP be on ? The system we are planning will also have solar and a wood burner feeding into the hot water tank so the ASHP will not be needed all year round. The wood burner will not be lit every day in the winter more when we have the time or inclination!

Thanks allot

Alex :confused:]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16325 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16325 Mon, 11 Nov 2019 12:19:53 +0000 RobinB
https://auctions.eddisons.com/auctions/7258/eddiso10618]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16314 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16314 Wed, 06 Nov 2019 10:08:35 +0000 owlman Thanks]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16297 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16297 Mon, 21 Oct 2019 18:07:24 +0100 tony
I said pipes not slinkies all 2m deep and 2m apart]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16294 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16294 Mon, 21 Oct 2019 10:05:01 +0100 bardo
We are looking to use the combie for space heating, winter cooking, hot water and radiator feed. Apparently it can do all these things and our super insulated straw bale house has relatively low energy requirements.

Has any here used this particular model for the purposes we are intending? The heating engineer we are working with is unsure it has enough oomph to do service rads as well. I contacted Lohberger and they said that it would work however the correspondence with the German based team is limited due to language.

Cheers,]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16289 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16289 Thu, 17 Oct 2019 20:32:11 +0100 Victorianeco
The RF stat I have has served me well, a Danfoss Tpone with an RX1-S receiver. However the receiver has packed in and a replacement is £30

Can anyone recommend a decent one that is RF or smart?

I liked the controls on this one as I could limit the temperatures so my missus couldn't go past 21c

Any thoughts on a half decent but cheap model?]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16206 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16206 Wed, 14 Aug 2019 11:34:19 +0100 revor The mixer unit between the manifolds is by Ivar and from looking at a short video on their web site it looks like the supply to the manifold mixer valve needs to be pumped. It is set up with bypass valves to control the return temperature to the" boiler" which should be hotter than the return temperature of the u/f heating loops but in my case it is not as the return to the store is the same temperature as the loops. Has anyone done a set up driving u/f from a thermal store and if so how was it configured.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16283 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16283 Tue, 15 Oct 2019 18:53:21 +0100 HoveTom
I’m converting a bungalow so there will be no loft or pressure tank above and I’m planning on having a new mains gas boiler. There will be rads upstairs and two bathrooms and wet ufh downstairs.

I had a quote a while back from Chelmer Heating for their ecostat tank which I know is different from other Thermal Stores but I’m not sure entirely why. I think it’s becaise it’s got two tanks and so I can still qualify for RHI payments as the Solar Collectors will only heat my domestic water and not space heating.

Is a Chelmer Thermal Store a half way house between a normal Thermal Store and a Pressurised Solar Cylinder? Do I actually want the cheaper pressurised Solar Cylinder? I’m getting confused by people’s advise who are also selling things to me.

What tank sizes do people use for a 4 bed house with two showers in?

Many thanks.]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16269 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16269 Tue, 08 Oct 2019 15:36:16 +0100 hollyberry I am new to the forum and a householder with a GSHP and know very little about the technical stuff.
I moved into this house in 2017 which is a hybrid barn and comes with a NIBE pump, water UFH and copious amounts of insulation. The bottom line is the house never cools below 21C which is way too hot to sleep with. Opening doors and windows all day will reduce the temp by a few degrees but as soon as they are closed it only takes 1 hour to be back to 21C. The pump is covered by NIBE service plan and has seen 3 visits out of routine and another 3 for breakdown. In 6 visits, each being a different technician, no one has been able to solve the problem and each saying that they have turned everything to a minimum. The current setting is for the house temp to be 16C with the option of using room stats which are currently all off. I have recently sent data info to NuHeat to analyse from pages 1 and 2 of the GSHP's information displays and they assure me that all is perfectly normal. The buffer tank is 22C and this shouldn't be contributing but if it is, can this be reduced further. Today the outside temp was 8C first thing this morning, the pump set to 16C for indoor temperature but alas every room is still 21C. Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated or even a plan to decommission and revert to the immersion for hot water. Many thanks, Julie]]> http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16235 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16235 Sat, 07 Sep 2019 18:25:59 +0100 djh
We currently use electrical resistance heating for our space heating and our water heating and have an E7 meter. For most of the year, we don't need any space heating and our water heating is provided by PV diversion. April through September, our grid consumption is between 4 and 7 kWh/day. November through February is our heating season. March and October are transitional. Daytime usage during the heating season is about 8 kWh/day and nighttime E7 usage, which is when the DHW heating and most of the space heating occur, is around 20 kWh/day. Heat diverted to water is typically maybe 6 kWh/day when PV is heating it, so I suppose about the same or maybe a bit less is provided from the grid during the winter. Which leaves about 14 kWh/day as the space heating demand. Times say 150 days is 2100 kWh per year, which at 7p /kWh is £147 per year.

So what are the costs of a small ASHP? Purchase? Installation? Maintenance? Electrical running costs? These are numbers that anybody with an ASHP probably knows a lot more about than me!]]>