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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

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    • CommentAuthorhayleyken
    • CommentTimeFeb 10th 2010
     
    Hi
    We're in the process of trying to do an eco-refurbish on an existing out-house/ garden room adjacent to our house. We had to go through planning as this plus kitchen extension over sq footage. The garden room has 2 existing stone walls - 1 to lane and 1 adjoining wall to neighbours garden. There is an existing concrete floor in the room. We want to use a timber frame and green roof which is fine but building control have said we need to dig up floor to ensure damp proof membrane throughout, he recommends knocking down stone walls which we don't want to do. If we keep the walls then he wants a bitumen or other impermeable membrane to ensure no condensation or rising damp issues occur. We would rather use natural finishes. Is there anyway to overcome this? Are there any natural finishes that building control would be happy with - we need examples as this guy seemed reluctant to budge! Any advice would be much appreciated.
    thanks
    Hayley
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeFeb 10th 2010
     
    The Building Control Officer at your council is not the only person who can issue Building Control Approval. Perhaps seek out a private company with relevant experience.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeFeb 10th 2010
     
    Use lime and you will never have any problems with damp -- dont use cement.
    • CommentAuthorEv
    • CommentTimeFeb 12th 2010
     
    Contact Ty Mawr and talk to them about their Limecrete floors... and lime plaster... you could talk to SPAB.

    Why should you have to knock down walls and do damaging things? Crazy.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeFeb 13th 2010
     
    Certainly don't knock down the walls without checking if that would mean you need planning permission to build a "new" outbuilding.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeFeb 13th 2010
     
    My view is that they cant make you knock them down, they cant make you underpin them so long as you dont impose any more loads but they can make you insulate them.

    I can help you design so no leads are applied and insulation is always a good thing.
  1.  
    Hi Hayley.
    I would try asking the Building Control officer if he is prepared to put the demands in writing, highlighting exactly which clauses of the building regulations they are attempting to enforce.

    I do not believe they can make you demolish anything unless it is unsafe.

    Further they cannot make you hack off rendering or dig up floors. What they can do is make you insulate, but only if you are 'adding a layer' such as rendering or renewing the floor anyway. This is quite complicated however and several exclusions can apply

    Regarding underpinning, they can only make you do this if the walls are unsafe or if you intend to add loading to the existing walls in some way. As tony says though, this can often be avoided by cute design.
    • CommentAuthorEv
    • CommentTimeFeb 13th 2010
     
    No, they can't make anyone demolish unless unsafe, but a BCO can make demands which at times are not reasonable and not actually fixed in law and are a matter of policy interpretation (many ways to skin a cat...) but which can make life very awkward.

    However, all this requires planning permission and presumably that hasn't yet been applied for and refused? Those are simply his ideas of what he wants?

    I'd seek out a good architect with some sympathy for what you want to do, that tends to mollify BC'Os ...
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeFeb 13th 2010
     
    If the levels allow you could also put a DPM on top of the existing concrete floor eg top to bottom...

    Screed
    Insulation
    DPM lapped up walls
    sand blind
    Existing concrete floor.

    or perhaps

    Engineered oak
    18mm flooring grade chipboard T&G
    Insulation
    DPM lapped up walls
    sand blind
    Existing concrete floor.

    What do you plan to build your timber frame on? The BCO may want to see you dig holes in the conc floor to put in some sort of foundations in anyway.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeFeb 13th 2010
     
    Posted By: Ev However, all this requires planning permission and presumably that hasn't yet been applied for and refused?


    OP says they have planning. My concern was that the existing PP might be for a refurbishment not a knock down and rebuild. Planners can be fussy about exactly what permission you have. Dont assume that if the BCO says you must take the walls down, that he has agreed that with the planners.
    • CommentAuthorEv
    • CommentTimeFeb 13th 2010
     
    Well, if there's existing then it's existing, but it's not totally clarified as to why if there is planning passed it's to be altered now?
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2010
     
    Planning permission to "convert" something is not the same as permission to knock down and rebuild. Just check the wording of your PP before you knock down any walls.

    http://www.uklanddirectory.org.uk/barn-conversions.asp
    • CommentAuthorEv
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2010
     
    Unless a building or structure is listed or in a conservation area then there's nothing to prevent demolition. There's also no mechanism to force demolition either, unless unsafe.

    However, if there is planning passed, then it's a little late to start trying to alter that to any great extent. The time for negotiations was before the app went in.
    • CommentAuthorMike George
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2010 edited
     
    Well I thought PP was required for demolition but it seems not. see http://www.planning-applications.co.uk/domesticp13.htm for the detail
    • CommentAuthorEv
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2010
     
    No, not unless, as I said, its listed or conservation area.
    • CommentAuthorMike George
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2010 edited
     
    Not Planning Permission then either. It is Listed Building Consent or Conservation area consent as applicable
    • CommentAuthorEv
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2010
     
    No, it's consent but not planning permission in a conservation area BUT you do need it to go hand in hand with planning permission.

    It's not straightforward (nor indeed is demolition of a listed building or conservation area building or structure...) and there's quite a bit of case law to be taken into account also.
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