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Housing - Renovation: Passive spec window suppliers for old house. Any recommendations?

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    • CommentAuthorDavey P
    • CommentTimeJan 31st 2023
     
    Hi all. I'm hoping to replace the windows in our old stone farmhouse this summer and would like to do so with 3G passive spec units, my logic being it's one area we can make significant efficiency improvements in one go. I put 3G units in our last house and was amazed at the difference in comfort they made. the last lot were made by a local joiner and not passive spec in terms of the seal detail but the new house is on a very windy and exposed hill so want to go passive.
    I was thinking Aluclad from a longevity perspective but not encountered them before. Are they worth looking at or a waste of money.
    Also, the really thin frame detail on some of the more contemporary units I've seen would look out of place on our rustic 400 year old pile of stone. I'm wanting to go for a single opening unit ideally to maximise both light and efficiency but the frames will need to be reasonably chunky.

    Can anyone recommend any suppliers as I literally don't know anyone with triple glazing apart from locally sourced plastic. I've spoke to Russel Timbertech but not used them before. I've heard of Internorm but thats just from a google search. This will be our last home so want whatever I install to last so I don't have to replace them again.

    Any info much appreciated.
    • CommentAuthorborpin
    • CommentTimeFeb 5th 2023
     
    Inward or outward opening? What will the Planners say?

    Look for something with a double seal, did a google search and lots just have a single seal.

    I bought some Wooden framed triple glazed units from the Czech Republic (Albo Windows) - sadly they don't seem to have an agent in the UK anymore (stopped long before Brexit). They were factory painted and 11 years later are as good as the day they were fitted.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeFeb 6th 2023
     
    I used Internorm windows, 4 levels of draught seals, very robust, 12 years on not a whimper, look beautiful too. One big plus for 3g is the noise reduction.
  4.  
    I used Rehau Geneo, triple glazed and triple sealed with reasonably chunky frames.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeFeb 6th 2023 edited
     
    Posted By: Davey Pthe really thin frame detail on some of the more contemporary units I've seen would look out of place on our rustic 400 year old pile of stone. I'm wanting to go for a single opening unit ideally to maximise both light and efficiency but the frames will need to be reasonably chunky.
    I'm puzzled about that. Everything I've seen is that frames in the past, from early 18C right up to WW1, were very slender, ex 2"x2" for large e.g sliding sash frames, ex 1.5"x1.5" for hinged frames ('ex' meaning .25" off all round), glazing bars very slim, down to 15mm wide. Since then, joinery's got progressively chunkier, initially because all the good slow-grown straight-grain timber was used up by WW1, recently because heavy double or triple glazing necessitates more strength in the opening lights, and much wider glazing rebates. Even small increase in timber width, say 12%, results in that squared = 25% reduction in glass area, which to the eye looks far 'heavier', even claustrophobic, compared to the often light, crystaline effect of old cottage windows, especially with old wavy glass in the holes. So I've been on a hunt for modern triple glazed windows that with care can present a minimum of wood and a maximum of glass to the view, and narrow glazing bars.

    For 'modern' houses, Russell Timbertech are standard, for me, very adequate quality, and available as either full-PH 0.7U-ish (tho poss not Certified) with 4-16-4-16-4 3G, or for way-unbeatable price 1.1U-ish 4-12-4-12-4.

    For 'traditional refit' houses, Vrogum's Danrose line seems unique. Its opening lights are unique, in modern windows, in being glaze-in, which means no chunky outboard glazing beads, instead slim 45o bevelled solid timber which can easily seen as the putty of traditional windows with narrow glazing rebates. There are other features, and we do some other things as well, to complete the illusion that these make a close match to pre-WW1 English cottage (and indeed sliding sash) windows - see the sheets, attached, that we did for a recent LB Application. Make sure there's a hinged frame (even if actually fixed shut) inside every hole of the fixed frame, as direct-glazing into fixed frame is done glaze-out like any other modern window. Price, from new supplier Indigo Seven https://svarre.co.uk, has become reasonable, about 1.5x Russell, quality is superb, only snag is 1.1U-ish 4-12-4-12-4, not PH.
      Existing cottage windows.png
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeFeb 6th 2023
     
    If you can't read these screen captures, email me and I'll send the pdfs.
      316C-71.png
  7.  
    I have used Green Building Store for 3G windows on a couple of occasions and have no problems with the quality of the product. Agree re sound-proofing.
    • CommentAuthorDavey P
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2023
     
    Thanks for the replies folks, sorry for the delayed response, I've not really had chance to sit down at the computer since my initial post.
    I did a bit of site trawling and came up with the following companies who I have contacted: Norsken, Nordan, Nordvest, Velfac (Which I believe are internorm? the uk contact being Buildmer) and Russel.
    Tony, thanks for the internorm recommendation. I've got the initial quote back from Velfac and they are over double the price of a couple of the others but I will drill down into the detail at some point this week to try and quantify that.

    Borpin, the house is neither listed nor in a conservation area so AFAIA I can just crack on and replace the windows with whatever I want. Thats what I'm doing anyway!

    Tom, thanks for the info and detail. Yes you are right, most of the windows have a a 50mm frame with a couple on the north aspect having 70mm cills. It's those windows that ideally I don't want to change the cill depth of due to the height of the internal reveals against the frame. Basically there is nowt to play with.
    Regarding my comment that "chunky will look better" I've come round to thinking that actually slimmer will probably look better. It's just a case of getting my head around the visual change from the existing (70's??) storm casement windows in the south aspect which are around 1400W x 1700H and contain a lot of timber in terms of detail. Originally I'm sure it will have had yorkshire sliding sash windows which have been changed over the years to a mish mash of Georgian style casement on the North aspect to 3 sash casement on the South aspect.

    My approach is, the building has evolved over the years and while I'm happy to keep traditional details where they don't impact efficiency such as stonework etc, with the windows, I want to go for the best performing and light transferring options possible and I think a high quality modern window will look fine. If I knew how to load pics I would attach north and south elevation shots.
    From what I can see of the vrogum units they do look an excellent option for a period application. In fact. from what I can see of the existing Kitchen window shown in the screen shot it looks pretty much the same as our kitchen window in terms of size and style. I'm happy that a single sash top hung unit will look fine in our application as our house is not quite as 'chocolate box cottage' as the one shown.




    Tom

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