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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

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  1.  
    This is a topic often discussed over the years,
    sometimes argued about on GBF
    So it's 2019
    What's the most up to date view on the best way to deal with damp , rising damp and salts damp damage near to the ground level on internal wall finishes on solid walls.

    Once penetrating damp, surface water drainage and or condensation issues have been ruled out , should we consider the various damp shield creams and additives on the market or stick with the more traditional breathable solutions.
    (in cases where internal insulation isn't wanted)
    what does the GBF team think?
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2019
     
    How do you know you've ruled out condensation (on the consistently coldest bit of the house)?
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2019 edited
     
    Rising damp is so rare that you are unlikely to ever see it, like hen’s teeth.

    I think lime is good cement bad, creams may like cement and paints entrap moisture

    Ventilation is good

    Damp meters are bad

    Drill a hole, collect dust, send it to me in a poly bag and I will tell you moisture content
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2019
     
    Sorry if I'm missing the point, but doesn't a French drain answer the original question?

    Even if rising damp does exist, it's going to have to work bl**dy hard to rise that far.
    • CommentAuthorjfb
    • CommentTimeJul 13th 2019
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: jamesingram</cite>What's the most up to date view on the best way to deal with damp , rising damp and salts damp damage near to the ground level on internal wall finishes on solid walls.</blockquote>

    I find some well placed furniture does a good job of covering up any dubious areas!
  2.  
  3.  
    Tom - its more of a hypothectical but I see your point. the particular job thats raised this question for me again the plaster spoiling and damp is all along the lower north walls even with 2 long large radiators filling them.

    Tony- thanks for the offer , it might be case of the client getting what they want done rather than what 'should' be done

    DJH- french drain has been done
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJul 14th 2019
     
    Photos of the inside and outside would be useful, I think. Also stick an RH meter on the floor by the wall and see what it says.
  4.  
    Was the floor originally permeable (suspended timber, flags on lime) and has been replaced with something impermeable (DPM, cement screed, VCL, plastic underlay under carpet, etc)?

    What's on the inside and outside surfaces, what's it pointed with?

    In autumn/ winter, take air temperature and RH readings in the middle of the room air, calculate the dewpoint, compare with surface temperature measurements of the walls at the damp area. (Better still log them over several weeks).

    Show the client some of the video from that link I posted!
    • CommentAuthorjamesingram
    • CommentTimeJul 14th 2019 edited
     
    Will , thanks for the vid I'll check it out ,
    I remember a BBC documentry years ago about the issue of falsely diagnosed rising damp and the debated around whether it actually occurs much.

    Im familiar with the 'heritage' method of dealing with damp
    French drains
    ventilation
    dealing with cold spots
    breathable construction etc.
    sometimes they still leave a problem the client doesnt want.

    quick low down
    9" london stock brick , north facing wall, pointed with weak sand cement mix by the looks of it
    suspended floor , probably poorly vent
    no insulation anywhere in the area
    air tightness no exisitant
    externally block paved sloping away from house with gravel smallish french drain against wall
  5.  
    I can't offer solutions but I would like to add that I suffered from the rising damp issues in the UK where the mortgage Co insisted on an injected DPC and plaster referb etc. as a condition of the mortgage whereas the actual problem was a leaking gutter and bad down pipe. (about 35 years ago)
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJul 14th 2019
     
    Posted By: jamesingramquick low down
    9" london stock brick , north facing wall, pointed with weak sand cement mix by the looks of it
    suspended floor , probably poorly vent
    no insulation anywhere in the area
    air tightness no exisitant
    externally block paved sloping away from house with gravel smallish french drain against wall

    DPC?
    • CommentAuthorjamesingram
    • CommentTimeJul 14th 2019 edited
     
    old injected one in mortar
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeJul 17th 2019
     
    Here is one I did last year

    Thanks for inviting me to check for damp in the walls of your Victorian terraced home in Reading. You told me that you had received a survey, report and estimate from a damp proofing company and they had informed you that the whole of the ground floor of your property needed to have an injected damp course and to be replastered up to 1m high all round with waterproof plaster at cost of £4,250

    I suggested that you allowed me to check for damp by drilling a series of 5mm holes 60mm deep low down in your walls, collecting the dust, weighing it, drying it in an oven at 120C and reweighing it. I would then be able to calculate the percentage moisture content in the walls.

    The results were surprising as the previous survey with a good quality electronic damp meter indicated that high levels of damp were present in all the walls and indeed there was some evidence of this near the front door and in the kitchen where there had been a flat roof leak some years ago, this had been repaired.


    The test results percentages for holes 1 to 9 were; 2.1, 1.4, 3.3, 0.5, 3.3, 2.1, 1.3, 0.25, 1.3 respectively.

    The very low result of 0.25 was so low that I double checked it as it was behind your WC under the cistern in a single storey rear addition where we would normally find a higher level of moisture. I had never seen test results this low in terraced houses. The highest results could not be classed as damp and I recommended that you did not do the injected damp course or waterproof replastering as it was unnecessary. Cosmetic replastering in some areas was all that would be needed, saving a lot of hassle and £4250

    The first test hole was behind the front door. The last test was only 1.3% was under the window by your stereo and the eighth behind the WC and usually the dampest place. I have never seen a result below 1% before in a terraced house.

    The fifth and sixth results are both behind the bins in the kitchen where the roof leaked.

    My recommendation was that no damp treatment need be carried out.
    • CommentAuthorCerisy
    • CommentTimeJul 18th 2019
     
    Nice one Tony. Blow the rising damp myth out of the water. :bigsmile:
  6.  
    What water?
    • CommentAuthorKenny_M
    • CommentTimeJul 21st 2019
     
    My personal experience of this...

    I moved into my current 200 year old house about 3 years ago and inherited a damp problem that had been treated with dpc injection, that had clearly not had any effect hence the rotting skirting etc. During negotiations the previous owner was about to get areas of the wall tanked by a damp proofing company, and I told him that I wouldn't buy the house if he went ahead with it, and instead we agreed for him to take the cost of that off the price.

    After moving in I paid for a chimney rebuild and removal of cement render, not convinced the latter was an issue but the former was taking in water. Then I repaired the cast iron box gutter which had been leaking in about 10 different places. Next I found the porch roof downpipe open underground about 0.4m from the wall. I could see from the height of the vents that the ground level had been raised and lowered it as much as I could, which was restricted because I didn't want to lift the entire pathway. One of the UF vents was painted over and completely closed, and I can see that there is a build up underneath and there still isn't clear airflow but I'm not in a position yet to lift the floor and deal with this.

    Although there are still a few things to do, already I can see the walls on the outside visibly starting to dry out, and the moss etc has started to disappear, and on the inside the woodwork is drying out. What worries me is that the damp proofing 'experts' were either unwilling or unable to identify the basic issues above that me a complete amateur in this area could identify and rectify with my eyes open and a bit of online research. To be fair it would have taken a bit of work to figure out the drain issue and the ground levels, but even on a dry day the signs of the gutter leak were obvious.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeJul 21st 2019
     
    Well done, there is a whole industry relying on people being not like you.
  7.  
    Posted By: tonyWhat worries me is that the damp proofing 'experts' were either unwilling or unable to identify the basic issues above that me a complete amateur in this area could identify and rectify with my eyes open and a bit of online research.

    IMO the 'experts' are not in the business of solving the damp problems but rather selling their product for which they get their commission
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeJul 22nd 2019
     
    Often on an easy win as a guarantee for work is frequently required by a mortgage company who have no interest in the work itself just the piece of paper.
    • CommentAuthorKenny_M
    • CommentTimeJul 22nd 2019
     
    What really got me at the time though, was how completely bought into the whole thing both my solicitor and the Chartered Surveyors were. However logical my arguments were about how tanking would just direct the dampness somewhere else, the damp proofing guys were considered the qualified person, and I was just some mad house buyer!
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