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Housing - New Build: High perfromance folding sliding doors...

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  1.  
  1.  
    Any one know of any close to passiv haus folding sliding doors....?

    J
  2.  
    I've not found any yet. The best I have found so far are from Sunfold (SFS44). Strangely they are full aluminium frame (with thermal insulation) but they are triple glazed and claim to be able to achieve down to 0.89W/m2K on large panels with top of the range glass options. They even claim to have a thermally broken track. I'm sure they will be expensive, but we haven't got that far yet.

    See: http://www.sunfold.com/misc/Sunfold_SFS44.pdf

    Note that the website only quotes "less than U=1.1W/m2K", while the brochure clearly indicates the 0.89 figure.

    If you find better then I'd be very interested.
  3.  
    Check out eco-plus http://www.greenbuildingstore.co.uk/about-ecoplus.php

    Triple glazing as standard.
  4.  
    Posted By: itsgrimupnorthlondonCheck out eco-plushttp://www.greenbuildingstore.co.uk/about-ecoplus.php" >http://www.greenbuildingstore.co.uk/about-ecoplus.php

    Triple glazing as standard.


    They don't do folding sliding doors as far as I can see....
    • CommentAuthorvisitor
    • CommentTimeJul 13th 2009
     
    you can get tilt/sliding doors from internorm as well. mine looks like a giant window. with some tweaking the sizes can go up to 2700x2300 in 3G.
  6.  
    Posted By: MarkBennett
    Posted By: itsgrimupnorthlondonCheck out eco-plushttp://www.greenbuildingstore.co.uk/about-ecoplus.php" >http://www.greenbuildingstore.co.uk/about-ecoplus.php

    Triple glazing as standard.


    They don't do folding sliding doors as far as I can see....


    I stand corrected - they do them as a special order, but not as a standard offering.
  7.  
    ...green building store and Internorm eh....?

    ...sorry forgot to mention I am not made of money!

    J

    PS

    Just kidding thanks for the suggestions. :)
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeJul 14th 2009
     
    How about pure sliders? I've used superb http://www.hajomskjutdorrar.se/?lang=eng but since they got swallowed by the dreaded Elit group, can't get any sense out of them. Instead, http://www.becker-sohn.com have quoted 13.6m run x 2.5m high in 5 huge leaves - £19,600 delivered, provided you can pay in Euros.
    • CommentAuthorCassie
    • CommentTimeJul 14th 2009
     
    James,

    I have quotes for two stretches of sliders , one is 5.750m the other 3.2m and am on a budget and these are my quotes ( not all companies can do the large sliders).

    I went for sliders rather that folding because the chances of opening up the space entirely in our weather were rare, but just to open a sliding door probably far more frequent. Also lock open so no risk of wind catching them or of trapped fingers.

    velfac 7172.71 ( slider was smaller than the other 2 )
    rawington 6826.86
    Olsen 7479.67

    Dont know if this helps?

    Cas
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeFeb 26th 2012 edited
     
    Have there been new offerings come on the market since 2009? We want to put a 4.5 m run of folding sliding doors in. Naturally we want a low u-value, but we want them to have a level threshold too (15 mm drop from inside to outside would be fine). Oh yeah, and they have to be cheap, ha! Am I asking too much?
    • CommentAuthorJimbo7
    • CommentTimeMar 2nd 2012
     
    We're having a 3 section folding/sliding door (+ 2 more doors and 12 windows) from http://www.nordica-uk.com/

    Aluminium clad timber frame, with a 40.1mm triple glazed unit (12/14mm argon filled cavities, 1 toughed pane, 1 laminated). Quoted U-value is 0.92W/m2K. Cost is around the £500/m2 mark (ex vat).

    Being delivered next week :smile:

    Jim
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeJan 19th 2013
     
    Posted By: Shevek...............Have there been new offerings come on the market since 2009? We want to put a 4.5 m run of folding sliding doors in. Naturally we want a low u-value, but we want them to have a level threshold too (15 mm drop from inside to outside would be fine). Oh yeah, and they have to be cheap, ha! Am I asking too much?

    How did you get on Shevek. I'm after something similar.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeJan 19th 2013
     
    European 3G and plenty to choose from now
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeJan 19th 2013
     
    Yes, I've looked at a few tony, in all sorts of material,and I'm minded to aluminium at the moment. I'll probably go for 2G because although I want external grade, but with low threshold, the doors will eventually only be the divider between main house and conservatory. I'm looking at building the conservatory with standard folding/sliding doors for two of the sides. When it comes to them I'll most likely go for 3G.
  15.  
    The three I've got shortlisted to quote at the moment are
    Schuco
    Sunflex

    Which both have options down to a claimed 1.0
    and
    SolarLux SL 97 which claims 0.8/Passive standard

    True flush thresholds mean brushes which has a big negative impact on airtightness/insulation and weathertightness but might not bother you if it's only temporarily to the exterior (I'd be very tempted to go for flush in that situation)

    Talking to the suppliers at the shows they all gave an indicative price of £1500 per panel upwards.
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeJan 20th 2013
     
    Hi Simon,
    Yes I was aware of the brush pile seals but as you say it is essentially only a room divider. I thought the external grade, whilst overkill for a room divider still allows the eventual conservatory to maintain its "conservatory" status. I'm minded to aluminium because of price and also because they are, AFAIK all bottom roller running, which means much simpler installation re: lintles etc. Most wooden ones are top hung with all the implications for lintle strength. I have talked to one timber system supplier though who quoted just under £1000 per panel bespoke, but if you are not fixed to a specific size you might look at standard off the peg sizes. Have you had a look at these:-

    http://www.kloeber.co.uk/gallery/Aluminium%20Folding%20Sliding%20Doors/Eurofold%20Aluminium%20Standard%20Size%20Folding%20Sliding%20Doors

    I'm also looking at trench radiators for directly in front of the doors.
  17.  
    Bottom roller will keep your costs lower on surrounding construction but by all accounts top hung slide with less effort (and less worry about debris in the track).

    The note I've got (not sure of source) is "Recent Solalux job, top or bottom running made no difference to max width of panel - but the taller the narrower. Top running seems preferable because the bottom rail can then be much neater. However, yes, serious non-deflecting structure needed overhead!
    There was much tech negotiation about that, but what they didn't mention until on site, is that with the end panel being butt hinged onto the jamb member, when all the leaves are stacked open a great deal of their combined weight is hanging on it - and unbelievably that timber jamb member isn't actually suspended from the aluminium (wood faced) head member (just adjustably located onto it), but is a loose piece that itself has to be fixed to a v solid structural reveal"

    A good job made of fitting (particularly wrgt levelness/squareness of opening) also makes a big difference to how well they run. Relatives in a very low energy/3G windowed house have their folding/sliding as their big 'fail' - haven't got them to look up the maker yet but don't run that well, 2G is noticeably cooler than the 3G windows (and it's near the dining table) plus, most significantly, there's a problem with the seals which means the middle rubber seal (on a 4 leaf door opening to the two sides) has a very noticeable draught.
    • CommentAuthorSimon Still
    • CommentTimeJan 20th 2013 edited
     
    I've seen Kloeber timber in situ and they seem good quality. Wood frames have poor sightlines though - you end up with a lot of frame. Can't fault the pricing.

    Another friends recently had wood installed, previous property had Schuco which they couldnt' stretch to this time. A world of difference in handling.

    Unless anyone else thinks it would make a big difference I'd say as a 'near external' room divider you want 2G to keep the weight down and flush threshold. There will be a temp differential to the conservatory but some way off to outside and there won't be any direct rain/wind hitting it but aluminium to keep the framing down will be sensible
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeJan 20th 2013
     
    Apropos bottom rolling bifolds, one supplier recommends a 4" x 2" hollow square section steel tube directly beneath the bottom track for good support. This suits me fine as it helps me get a perfectly level base. The other reason I'm in favour of the bottom rollers is that the tracks only comprise two raised small low profile runners for the wheels. The rest of the whole bottom extrusion is smooth and solid with no hollow "U" section channel " dirt trap", as exists for the bottom guides of top hung systems. I think I'll pay particular attention to the bottom roller quality on whichever I choose. My system needs to be 4.0M wide and I'm looking a 1 and 4 panel set up, and I take your point re the 4 door stack and the strength of the jamb at that end. I've been looking at Schuco alu doors too, glad to hear they are good quality.
    • CommentAuthorTimSmall
    • CommentTimeJan 22nd 2013 edited
     
    I initially intended to go for sliding-folding, but in the end decided on big Rehau (Geneo?) insulated PVCu (and PVCu/Alu sills) lift/slide doors, with two big 48mm argon sealed units (4-18-4-18-4).
    • CommentAuthorgooday
    • CommentTimeJan 23rd 2013
     
    www.vufold.co.uk

    There do good value normal sliding doors, but now offer an ali clad 3g version.

    not sure how they compare.
  22.  
    TimSmall, I´ve just had the Geneo Lift Sliders fitted as well. They look good and slide beautifully, I just hope they are as airtight as the documentation indicates!!
  23.  
    At the stage of looking for quotes now - has anyone got any experience of the highest performing folding sliding offerings from Schuco/Sunflex/Solarlux and any recommended suppliers?

    Trying to decide between a 5 panel fold/slide and a 3 section -> -> F triple track lift and slide. However, having trouble tracking down a suitable system. Height 2486 Width 3x1800 (though that might shrink a bit)
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeMay 11th 2013
     
    Solarlux bifold is superb kit (Sunflex equally so AFAIK) but I wouldn't recommend Bristol Bifold, the UK suppliers/fitters we were lumbered with.
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeMay 11th 2013 edited
     
    We ended up buying Green Building Store's Ecocontract triple-glazed folding sliding doors with a u-value of 0.81 for just over £900/metre +VAT.
  26.  
    Posted By: James Norton...green building store and Internorm eh....?

    ...sorry forgot to mention I am not made of money!

    J

    PS

    Just kidding thanks for the suggestions. :)


    I don't get why a piece of triple glazed glass with an insulated frame and a few seals has to cost so much.
    I often quote comparison of a new VW 10k up against a a 3 door sliding folding passivhaus door. Compare the technology - what the hell is going on! Anybody found any chinese ones?
    • CommentAuthorGreenfish
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2013
     
    Posted By: neilgorswiftI don't get why a piece of triple glazed glass with an insulated frame and a few seals has to cost so much.... Anybody found any chinese ones?
    It is crazy isn't it. Not sure about China, but look for sourcing direct from Poland, that seems to be the land of reasonable prices at the moment.
    • CommentAuthorvflatman
    • CommentTimeFeb 18th 2015
     
    Can I add this into the conversation about bi-fold doors and Passivhaus standards....

    I am the UK agent for Lacuna bi-fold doors, which are manufactured in Denmark. They are relatively new on the UK market and they have following specs:

    - Danish design / German engineering

    - Made to measure

    - 56mm per door frame giving a maximum frame to frame width of 117mm

    - Top hung design uses no guide rail and makes threshold cleaning easy

    - Low u-values; 1.1 - 0.7 W/m²K

    - Air permeability EN 12207 - Class 4 at +/-600 Pa

    - Watertightness EN 12208 - Class E1200

    - Heat treated beech (German)- with durability equal to teak - Class 1

    - No need for repainting for 25-50 years in normal conditions

    - Ironmongery of the highest marine grade acid proof stainless steel (316-A4).

    - Lead time usually between 6-7 weeks


    Happy to provide further information as required.

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