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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
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  1.  
    Note - this is not a Green Deal question!

    I'm curious to know from those who have build energy efficient buildings, whether passive-house or not, about the relative costs of the various principles that need to be applied to achieve an energy efficient building.

    I have scoured this forum (which is great, btw), and I'm coming to suspect that air-tightness (or low air-permeability, to give it it's proper name) and minimising thermal bridging are the two most expensive measures.

    If I can frame the question a bit first - let's assume that to get energy efficiency of space heating down to passivehouse levels (less than 15kWh/yr/m^2), it adds, say 20% to the cost of a new-build over and above building to UK 2010 part L regulations (as an aside - how does that figure sound? I've read that the average cost premium is 14%over standard practise, but it seems to me it's highly dependant on size and spec of the building in question, as well as it's location).

    And let's focus on the 5 main elements which need to be applied - superinsulation (low fabric U-values), high spec windows (and careful design minimising North-facing and maximising South-facing windows), minimal thermal bridging, low air-permeability, and installing MVHR...

    What would the breakdown of those elements be in terms of cost - 20% each (adding up to 100% of the cost premium over standard practise)? Or would perhaps thermal bridging and low air-permeability take up higher percentages, and perhaps superinsulation being the cheapest part of the process?

    I understand some innovations have helped with air permeability (Viking House's silicone gaskets between T&G OSB being an excellent case in point), which makes this a difficult question to answer - I'm just trying to get a feel for the relevant costs. In particular, I'd like to know if, say the building had a more relaxed space-heating demand target of 25 - 30 kWh/yr/m^2, does it make sense to relax each of the elements equally, or is there a cost benefit to, say, keeping high spec windows and low fabric u-values, but relaxing a bit on thermal bridging and low air-permeability, or perhaps doing away with MVHR entirely (which the PH institute say is possible to do and still achieve 30kWh/yr/m^2 demand).

    Your thoughts appreciated!
    •  
      CommentAuthorjoe90
    • CommentTimeMar 16th 2013
     
    My understanding of achieving good insulation/ air tightness etc is not so much great additional cost but attention to detail. Yes more insulation does cost more money but a relatively small amount. Good doors and windows are costly but necessary. I would much rather spend time and money on basic insulation/airtightness details that lots of bolt on gooodies that have a very long payback period.
  2.  
    But doesn't that attention to detail add to the cost?

    I forgot to add in my question that the build is contracted out - it's not a hands-on self-build project but developer or main-contractor built. Instructing high specifications on the detailing to achieve low air-permeability will no doubt cause them to add something to the price, no? And what about thermal bridging? Seems to me this cost is both in the specification of the materials (jambs, sills and lintels) and in the workmanship.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeMar 16th 2013
     
    I dont agree that low energy measures add 20% to the build cost.

    I will try to guess at the relative proportions of say insulation MHRV, air tightness and thermal bridging later.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeMar 16th 2013
     
    There is the saying 'good design costs nothing' but it does.
    Thermal bridging becomes a bigger problem the better then insulation and airtightness levels get. Not really sure how big a problem it really is at 15 kWh/(year.m^2), if it accounts for 50% of losses that is still low compared to a house that is using 25 kWh/(year.m^2).
    Guess what I am saying is that the starting point is the important bit. Start with a 100 year old building as a base is not the same as starting with a 2013 built place as a base.

    kWh/(year.m^2) is not the best way to compare domestic energy usage, possible the worst way.
  3.  
    Well, kWh/m²/yr is fine when comparing space heating demand, which is what I'm trying to get a handle on. Clearly DHW and electricity are highly dependant on lifestyle and occupancy, space heating is also but to a lower extent.

    Let's work backwards - the starting point is new-build at passive house standard (space heating demand = or < 15 kWh/m²/yr). Now let's relax the specifications so that space heating demand is between 25 and 30kWh/yr. Where can the specifications be relaxed most cost-effectively to hit the lower target in practise? Where is the trade-off between the 5 energy efficiency measures that need to be applied (fabric u-values, high-spec windows, low air-permeability, minimal thermal bridging and heat-recovery on the ventilation)?
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeMar 16th 2013
     
    What are cost effective reductions in specification? A house should last hundreds of years and should be built as well as possible, it is incredibly expensive(uncosteffectic) to add spec after the build.

    My take of highly insulated air tight homes is that they don't cost any more than a normal build as long as supply chains are in place and mistakes are not made.
  4.  
    I'm currently building to a spec of around 22kWhr/a so I might be able to outline what measures I would need to take to get to certified passive house levels.

    The one complication is that I am building in the south of Sweden and the spec I am currently building to would in fact get certification if built in many parts of the UK. There is a house very similar to mine from the same kit supplier which is a little outside Dublin that was going for certification when last I heard.

    Any way the biggest expense for me in lowering the heat demand would be getting better windows. I have pretty decent 3G Nordan windows and to significantly improve the spec would cost somewhere in the region of £10,000 (5% of my budget).

    Improving the spec of the HRV unit to a PHI certified Paul unit would have cost an extra £2,500 and would reduce the calculated ventilation losses by almost 1,000kWhr/a, a reduction of about 4kWhr/m²/a, if I were really focused on getting certification I would have gone for it but as my budget is tight and the payback on the upgrade was 20years+ I decided against it.

    As I am building timber frame I really don't know how you can otherwise "down spec" the airtightness.

    We have used an insulated raft foundation, which are pretty much the norm here although ours has a higher spec than standard and incorporates a thermal break between the main slab and the ring beam which should significantly reduce any cold bridge in that area. In total our groundwork cost about £30K which included site clearance, supply and fit of UFH pipework and preparing a parking area at the front of the house. I'd guess down specing the foundations could reduce costs by maybe £10,000? Not sure what any resulting increase in heat demand would amount to.

    As for other cold bridges our TF is a twin wall construction which I think is very effective at reducing cold bridges in the exterior walls. The only area where we have relatively significant cold bridges is at eaves height from the trusses and joists, I've no idea what the costs would be in eliminating these.

    As for fabric u-values with the type of TF I have, reducing the quantity of insulation would result in very little in the way of cost savings halving the amount of insulation would give a huge increase in heat demand for a saving in materials of about £3,000.
  5.  
    That's great Chris, thank you very much!

    From your figures then the cost breakdown would be:

    Windows: 39.2%
    Thermal Bridging : 39.2%
    Insulation: 11.8%
    HRV: 9.8%
    Air Tightness: 0%/Inherent

    I'm not surprised that the insulation is at the lower end of the scale, but the windows were a surprise. Obviously your case has some anomalies (don't they all!) - I guess in your location not applying these measures to some degree would be pointless. Any idea what your space heating demand would be if you ditched the higher spec on the foundation detail (saving you around £10k)?

    Thanks again! :bigsmile:
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2013
     
    Recently at the University of Reading a contractor offered a no cost option for 3g windows with European quality ironmongery and seals over the dg upvc specified so I put windows as zero.

    Thermal bridging mitigation does have a cost but I dont like the idea of expressing the results of this in terms of percentages of savings, better expressed as percentage of total build.

    Insulation is cheap and should be built in I would 1% of the build cost extra would take you past PH so long as you use inorganic quilt or EPS

    MHRV becomes a necessity as soon as you go to any reasonably airtight building so is this not zero too?

    Air tightness is a must, there is a cost but the cost is far greater if you dont have it!
  6.  
    Posted By: tonyRecently at the University of Reading a contractor offered a no cost option for 3g windows with European quality ironmongery and seals over the dg upvc specified so I put windows as zero.


    The contractor must've had one hell of a markup on the 2G windows in the first place! Clearly higher specification windows are more expensive than minimum standard units.

    Thermal bridging mitigation does have a cost but I dont like the idea of expressing the results of this in terms of percentages of savings, better expressed as percentage of total build.


    Yes percentage of total build is what I'm looking for, or rather percentage of costs over and above build costs of standard specification.

    MHRV becomes a necessity as soon as you go to any reasonably airtight building so is this not zero too?


    No - you can go airtight and still use trickle vents and intermittent fans, or PSV. MVHR is not a "necessity", except of course where the space heating demand target is low.

    Air tightness is a must, there is a cost but the cost is far greater if you dont have it!


    The question refers to the build cost only, not the running cost.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2013
     
    Left hand column is high spec build on the right the relative additional cost above a majority build

    Windows. Say 6% % uplift over chronic PVC 200%

    Thermal bridging. 0.3% % uplift over insulated cavity closers 100%.

    Insulation. 1.5% % uplift over building regs which require insufficient. 300%

    MHRV. 5% % uplift over fans and tv's (I don't agree these are sufficient though). 400%

    Air tightness 0.5% % uplift over a traditional colander 500%
  7.  
    Thanks tony! :bigsmile:

    So overall you're saying the energy efficiency measures account for 13.3% of a high spec build if going right down to PH space heating demand target, with the breakdown as shown, and that if you're using bog-standard bare minimum standards as the starting point, the extra costs would add up to 39.6% of the total build costs. Have I understood you right?

    Sounds reasonable to me overall, but I'm surprised you put thermal bridging and air-tightness at the low end cost-wise when reading some of the threads on this forum suggests these elements are often the most difficult and costly to achieve.

    Anybody else want to offer their opinion/experiences?
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2013 edited
     
    Take out the windows and put in my zero cost option ones (that you wont let me have :wink: and it is a very different picture)

    Also take a look at how many pvc windows are getting replaced after 10 to 20 years, a too high proportion that should be added into the real cost.
    • CommentAuthorbarney
    • CommentTimeMar 18th 2013
     
    It's a law of diminishing returns:

    Insulation is cheap, so plenty of it based on a sensible fabric design

    Airtightness is cheap to address, as is thermal bridging - but needs to be designed in

    Windows and doors carry horrendous cost premiums in terms of performance - they are crap to start with and spending more and more money to get minor performance improvements given theier relatively small area is a real money sink. Think of it this way - Part L walls need to be a minimum performance of (lets say) 0.16w/m2/K - and glass needs to be 1.6w/m2/k - ie 10 times worse. For a domestic house, you will save much more by omiting one small window than improving that 1.6w/m2/k window to say 1.0w/m2/k - think about it

    Once you get from the passive to the active like MVHR, then in a well insulated low air permeqability building, do you need it - use the windows when neccesary.

    To go from Part L to say Passivehaus equivalent would incurr a permium of around 15% in my experience - a small proportion of that in design cost, at least 50% in glass, 25% in insulatation 10% in detailing and 15% in green bling

    Regards

    Barney
  8.  
    Posted By: barneyTo go from Part L to say Passivehaus equivalent would incurr a permium of around 15% in my experience - a small proportion of that in design cost, at least 50% in glass, 25% in insulatation 10% in detailing and 15% in green bling


    That's great Barney - thank you very much! That's exactly what I was looking for! :bigsmile:

    How do those figures compare with other's experiences? Is glass always the "big ticket" item on the list?
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