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Products: does anyone know if "EPS power saver" works, if so how?

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  1.  
    • CommentAuthorRobinB
    • CommentTimeMar 27th 2009
     
    Can I really get something for nothing? Well, £46 to be more accurate if I buy it here -

    http://www.energyenv.co.uk/PowerSaver.asp

    "The EPS Power Saver uses a combination of filtration and correction techniques to improve the efficiency of various appliances and circuits. In addition, the intelligent technology optimises the voltage and current demands thus reducing the active power / KWH demands and achieves around 10% to 20% savings on your electricity bill."
  2.  
    http://www.aecb.net/forum/index.php?topic=632.0

    ask a similar question a while back

    "Plug-in magic boxes would be fitted by manufacturers if they were worthwhile. "

    i think this sums it up quite well
    • CommentAuthorbrig001
    • CommentTimeMar 27th 2009
     
    I have a smaller model and no it doesn't work. We all put a pound in at work to get one to see what was inside. It has a capacitor and an LED. The LED is just lit when it is plugged in and has nothing to do with the devices operation. The capacitor is so small, it can't do anything significant, even to a fridge. Even if the capacitor was significant, it wouldn't make any difference to your meter reading (assuming domestic) because you are charged for kWh and it could only make a difference to KVAh. We even tested it by measuring actual power and checking against the meter readings, with and without the unit. I reckon we could measure to 1% and could detect no change.

    HTH,
    Brian
  4.  
    Residential metering is in kWh, not kVAh so power factor correction boxes have no effect at all on your bill. If anything, they would increase your bill! Industrial customers how have a bad power factor are charged for this as the power factor is taken into account. All this magic box gizmos are a scam. The only benefit of power factor correction is to reduce the size of wiring needed since current is reduced - but the kWh consumed are the same either way.

    Paul in Montreal.
  5.  
    Posted By: jamesingram"Plug-in magic boxes would be fitted by manufacturers if they were worthwhile. "
    Appliances like fridges are already corrected since they use cap-start-cap-run motors in the compressors. The run cap is a power factor corrector!

    Paul in Montreal.
  6.  
    interesting, how are these thing still on the market for so long ? I looked at them in 2006 and thought , no

    yes theres always someone who will buy them, on the off chance, or believing they do what they claim
    they also sell a fuel magnet thingy,

    thought something like trading standards would pick up on it

    Jim
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeMar 27th 2009 edited
     
    Trading standards appear to have given up. The world is full of products that make dubious claims. Just listen to beauty products advertised on TV. There is one that proclaims it has "Pro-X". They don't appear to say what X is exactly. X is normally used in science to mean "unknown" so perhaps even they don't know.

    And then there are products like this..

    http://www.safespaceprotection.com/strip.htm

    Transform electromagnetic field interference from the main wiring in your home or office simply by placing one Energy Strip on your circuit breakers (fuse box). The Safe Space Energy Strip will help to create a soothing stress free environment by changing the polarity of the electromagnetic field produced by the electric current from negative to positive.


    Considering that the mains is AC that's no mean feat.

    The Energy Strip can also be placed on the source of the water lines to repolarize and reduce the toxic effect and increase the life force in your water.


    Personally I'd rather not have life forces in my tap water.
    • CommentAuthorRobinB
    • CommentTimeMar 30th 2009
     
    Thanks for your useful comments,you've saved me £46. I feel slightly naive and silly to have considered it!

    The only comment I disagree with is "Plug-in magic boxes would be fitted by manufacturers if they were worthwhile. " I think that unless they could charge a big premium or it was a legal requirement they wouldn't bother.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeMar 30th 2009 edited
     
    Don't feel silly. Just remember that shortly after he became PM Tony Blair and his wife were seen wearing badges similar to the type that claim to protect you from electromagnetic fields - or at least they were until someone put them straight.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-465798/Is-Cherie-Blair-misunderstood-bonkers.html

    ...in November 1998, Cherie demonstrated her love of magical-power dressing when she was pictured wearing a pendant, apparently bought on the advice of Hillary Clinton, America's First Lady at the time, which used the ancient art of crystal healing to create a "bio-electric shield".
    The bauble contained a matrix of specially cut quartz crystals, said to vibrate and create an energy shield to ward off negative forces and harmful rays from mobile phones, computers, hair-dryers and fluorescent lights
    • CommentAuthorarty
    • CommentTimeMar 31st 2009
     
    Hello,

    What about the vphase VX1 , is that also a waste of money ?

    Cheers
    • CommentAuthorbrig001
    • CommentTimeMar 31st 2009
     
    This looks more likely to save money because it reduces the mains from 240V to 220V. This will reduce the losses in motors which are optimised for 220V.
    It won't reduce the current to anything with a switch mode power supply (TV, PC, STB etc.) but may reduce the current taken by a fridge or washing machine (not the heater unfortunately).
  12.  
    Posted By: brig001This looks more likely to save money because it reduces the mains from 240V to 220V. This will reduce the losses in motors which are optimised for 220V.
    I thought the mains in the UK was 230V now (to harmonize with the EU)?

    All of these "money saving" gadgets are a waste of money.

    Paul in Montreal.
    • CommentAuthorSimonH
    • CommentTimeMar 31st 2009
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: Paul in Montreal</cite>I thought the mains in the UK was 230V now (to harmonize with the EU)?

    All of these "money saving" gadgets are a waste of money.

    Paul in Montreal.</blockquote>

    Well my plug in powermeter regularly tells me it's running at about 249V!
    • CommentAuthorbrig001
    • CommentTimeMar 31st 2009
     
    All of Europe is 230V... ish.
    IIRC:
    UK is 230V -6% +10% i.e. 240V nominal
    Rest of Europe is 230V -10% +6% i.e. 220V nominal

    I believe there are plans to change the limits so that eventually we will all be using a "real" 230V, but I don't know if/when that will be.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeMar 31st 2009 edited
     
    http://www.advfn.com/news_VPhase-Ofgem-Approves-Trials-Of-VPhase-VX1-Product_35991062.html

    VPhase: Ofgem Approves Trials Of VPhase VX1 Product

    Edit: Just had a look at their web site to see how it works and their claims do appear to be well founded. I'm pretty sure it will work but I'm less sure about the scale of potential savings. I await the results of the trial with interest.
    • CommentAuthorbrig001
    • CommentTimeApr 1st 2009
     
    I have a Variac and a power monitor so I should be able to test the theory on the fridge this weekend. I will reduce the voltage to 220V and see if the short term efficiency changes for a start. If the compressor still runs at the same speed, the long term efficiency will follow, but I will leave it for as long as SWMBO can put up with it on the kitchen worktop. Unfortunately it's only rated for 8A, so the washing machine is out, is there anything else I could/should test this on?
    • CommentAuthorbrig001
    • CommentTimeApr 1st 2009
     
    Maybe I won't bother, someone has beaten me to it...
    http://www.itee.uq.edu.au/~aupec/aupec04/papers/PaperID77.pdf
    ...total power increase of 17% for the refrigerator and 26% for the freezer respectively...
    ...the actual change in running cost due to higher voltage was virtually nil...
    ...there was a decrease in the cycle on time which counteracted the increased power...
    So, yes, your fridge will use more power (on 240V than on 220V) when the compressor is running, but it will run for a shorter time making the energy input the same.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeApr 2nd 2009
     
    Nice paper that. Thanks.
    • CommentAuthorTimber
    • CommentTimeApr 2nd 2009
     
    Brig - indeed..

    P=I*v

    so power in watts = current * voltage.

    the insulation of the fridge doesn't change, therefore the SAME power is required to hold it at a set tempurature, say 20watts.

    therefore if the voltage is reduced, the current will increase to maintain the same power, or the compressor will be on for longer to provide the same energy input over a given period of time.

    Simples!

    Timber
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeApr 3rd 2009
     
    Indeed some types of motor are more efficient at high voltages because the losses in the windings are proportional to I^2 (current squared). Same reason long distance power lines are high voltage.
  21.  
    http://www.vphaseplc.com/

    Any thoughts on this product , says it saves power by reducing/stablising voltage ?

    "This unit will maintain the incoming voltage to the property to a set point of 220V.
    Whilst electricity is provided by generators to a nominal specification in the UK this is 230V the actual voltage received can vary significantly due to the operation and complexity of the electricity networks.
    For example legal limits in the UK are 207V to 253V, whereas products in your home are designed to operate efficiently at lower levels.Testing at our test house near Chester has shown energy savings averaging around 10%"
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeNov 24th 2009 edited
     
    James, thats the product we discussed above.

    It depends totally on what your local mains voltage is like and what appliances you have. If your mains voltage already average 220V there probably won't be a saving. If it averages 240V there could be a 10% saving.

    Problem is some appliances use constant power regardless of the mains voltage. Take a kettle or oven for example. If you reduce the voltage slightly the kettle takes a correspondingly longer time to boil the water so no saving. The oven switches it's element on and off to maintain the set temperature so reducing it's voltage will just mean it's on for a longer percentage and again no saving. Brig post above suggests that the same applies to fridges. Yes the motor uses less power but it runs for longer.

    Conventional lighting would save but be slightly dimmer. In the case of 12V halogen downlights it depends on the type of transformer. Simple wound transformers might drop the output voltage a bit (eg 11V) producing a saving. Electronic transformers would maintain the output at 12V with no saving. Not sure how LED and CFL lighting would respond. I suspect no saving with LED but possibly with CFL.

    So in theory a saving is possible unlike with some other products but I'd want to see someone do a lot more tests on a wider range of appliances and houses - ideally by the BRE or the IEE.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeNov 24th 2009
     
    See that paper brig linked..
    http://www.itee.uq.edu.au/~aupec/aupec04/papers/PaperID77.pdf

    This was to investigate the opposite issue... does an increase in voltage from 220V to 240V cause an increase in consumption. The conclusion was..

    <blockquote> This demonstrates that voltage variation from the consumers point of view has minimal effect on the cost of electrical energy.</blockquote>
    • CommentAuthorHairlocks
    • CommentTimeNov 24th 2009
     
    &quot;If you reduce the voltage slightly the kettle takes a correspondingly longer time to boil the water so no saving.&quot;

    I would say this slightly increases the power usage, due to the fact that the longer you wait for a kettle to boil the more heat is lost, therefore energy wasted waiting for it to get there.

    Energy used = Energy to boil water + time taken to boil x heat loss of kettle (same for both tests).
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeNov 24th 2009
     
    Probably right. I was hoping losses from the kettle were small compared to that required to heat the water.
  26.  
    thanks cwatters , I thought the previous posts were regarding the EPS thingy, I should stop my skim reading habit

    Make sense what you said
    cheers Jim

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