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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

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    • CommentAuthorbrig001
    • CommentTimeNov 9th 2008
     
    Hi, I am new to this forum and apologise if this has been asked before...
    Our house is a 13 year old Fairclough build in the North West of England. Construction is brick - cavity - Thermalite - wet plaster, and timber joists and chipboard floor upstairs. All of our upstairs floors (and downstairs ceilings) are cold, especially the bedroom over the garage. Being the nosey type, I took the floor up in that room to have a look.

    I had two main problems:
    Insulation not complete under the floor.
    Gaps where the joists go into the inner leaf.

    I filled the gaps with caulk and got some polythene covered loft insulation and fitted it so that the plastic was against the wall creating a secondary seal. I then completed the insulation of the floor with the remaining loft insulation.

    Is this the best way to solve this? I intend to lift the other floors upstairs and do the same to seal the blockwork between the downstairs ceiling and upstairs floor. The improvement has been dramatic, so I guess I'm on the right lines.

    Thanks,
    Brian.
    • CommentAuthorjamesingram
    • CommentTimeNov 9th 2008 edited
     
    Sounds a good start , sound like the gaps round the joist are the main problem
    you could you use something to parge coat (wet under coat plaster) the blockwork between the joist to help seal hole area or perhaps foam fill the gaps to get a longer lasting seal, decorators caulk has a tendency to shrink back a bit
    Over the garage if you haven't already insulated you could perhaps use a better insulation , such as PUR board , though this requires more detail work to get a tight fit
    I presume you've had your cavities filled

    cheers Jim

    http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/business/Business/Building-Professionals/Helpful-Tools/Best-practice-house
    http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/uploads/documents/housingbuildings/CE83.GPG155%20-%20Energy%20efficient%20refurbishment%20of%20existing%20dwellings_4_01_08.pdf
    http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/scotland/Global-Data/Publications/Advanced-insulation-in-housing-refurbishment-CE97

    take a look at these for more info.
    • CommentAuthorbrig001
    • CommentTimeNov 9th 2008 edited
     
    I have a before photo. The cables from the garage weren't sealed either.

    The cavities aren't filled - yet. Got to save up a bit first, we are only just too well off and have to pay for everything.

    Thanks for the info Jim. Looks like I have a bit of reading (and learning) to do.
      pa240130b.jpg
    • CommentAuthorjamesingram
    • CommentTimeNov 9th 2008 edited
     
    thats a good photo to demonstrate the problem of air leakage round joists and wiring
    have a look at this guide for all round energy saving advice and costings
    http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/corporate/Global-Data/Publications/Domestic-energy-efficiency-primer-CE101-GPG171

    if moneys tight,stick to the mineral wool for insulating BQ/wickes etc they have lots of 2 for 1 deal as I'm sure you know

    Get your cavities filled asap , that will massively improve the problem . Phone up now and get the ball rolling, there may be a long waiting list
    I presume you have a 3 bed + house as you have a bedroom over the garage
    its approx £200 to do and the pay backs less than 2 years so if make sense to borrow money to do it .
    Stick it on a 0% credit card if you can , pay it off a the end of the deal , Its at least 50% return on your investment so its a no brainer
    what bank offers that kind of return on your investment?
    they'll stick some more insulation in you loft too for £150-200 but I'd suggest if possible doing it yourself now, or next weekend at least!
    the average homes about 50m2 and you should be able to get the materials for £150-200
    get it in for this winter , your get you money back in fuel saving before March
    if possible go for at least 300mm in the loft
    also look into draught proofing all doors,windows, cable/pipe entry points, basically anywhere something creates a hole into the cavity
    imagine your house as a balloon and if you dont fill those holes all the air (hot) going to whiz out

    here some links to cheap cavity fill and insulation
    http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav/nav.jsp?linktype=breadcrumb&fh_location=//catalog01/en_GB/categories<{10082}/categories<{10088}/categories<{9231012}&&ts=1223555266608

    this stuffs nice to work with and doesn't fill your loft with nasty fibres so you can still store stuff and move it around a bit to suit.
    http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav/nav.jsp?action=detail&fh_secondid=10186706&fh_view_size=6&fh_eds=%3f&fh_location=%2f%2fcatalog01%2fen_GB%2fcategories%3c%7b10082%7d%2fcategories%3c%7b10088%7d%2fcategories%3c%7b9231012%7d%2fspecificationsProductType%3dloft_insulation&fh_refview=lister&ts=1226261399357&isSearch=false
    • CommentAuthorbrig001
    • CommentTimeNov 10th 2008
     
    Thanks Jim. Last time I checked cavity wall insulation it was nearly £400, but now it's half that, so I will order that today. I will still fill the gaps as I don't think cavity wall insulation is that airtight.

    I have insulated half of the loft and found that the existing insulation was laid at 90 degrees to the joists, so I have been sorting that out as well. It is no good if the wind can blow under it. I should get this finished this weekend.

    If I wanted to improve the insulation in the bedroom over the garage, would fitting insulation board (PUR or Cellotex) under the garage ceiling be any good? This might be easier than lifting the entire floor in the bedroom and trying to fit it between the joists.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeNov 10th 2008
     
    What is the point in insulating the garage ceiling if wind can get into the void above it?

    Dont rely on cavity insulation to stop drafts, you need to physically seal them out of the warm parts of the house.

    Well done with the loft insulation.
    • CommentAuthorbrig001
    • CommentTimeNov 11th 2008
     
    Hi Tony, wind can't any more.
    Quote: I filled the gaps with caulk and got some polythene covered loft insulation and fitted it so that the plastic was against the wall creating a secondary seal.

    I have heard of people putting "normal" fibreglass insulation in plastic bags to use them as stoppers. I got some loft insulation that was already in a plastic bag and used that. I folded a cut piece in half and squeezed it in so that it is trying to expand into the gap creating a seal, something like [< if that makes any sense. When I do some more, I will take a picture of the finished arrangement.

    Ordered cavity wall insulation last night, so that should be done within four weeks. Still need to sort out the rest on the loft...
  1.  
    Celotex on your garage ceiling would be easier than pulling up the floor , but if you're pulling up the perimeter to deal with the gaps into the cavity
    could you feed the fibreglass in this way ?
    Celotex is expensive , 100mm 8/4 sheet £33+ ( this is approx. the same a 200mm mineral wool, I think you'd need to line over it for fire proofing
    either 2 * 12.5mm plasterboard or 12.5 fireline
    you can get plasteredboard with the PUR celotex/kingspan etc lamenated to it , but again its not cheap ( more than the 2 seperate items )

    Jim
    • CommentAuthorbrig001
    • CommentTimeNov 12th 2008
     
    Hi Jim, I have already fed fibreglass in, I was wondering if anything else could/needed to be done. I will wait till I have cavity wall insulation and sealed the rest of the holes then see if that room is still a problem.

    Thanks for your advice
    Brian.
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