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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
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Products: Water Softner another option

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    Hi all, we'll after speaking to a number of stands at ecobuild I had ruled out the salt based solutions and the zinc plate type seemed best, although I am dubious how effective they work with such volume of water simply rushing across the zinc plate! Today though in the plumbers merchant came across a 3rd option from Monarch Water called Scaleout uses these wizzy veg based balls, no power or salt, they said balls need replacing every 3 yrs.
    http://www.scaleout.co.uk/scaleout.php

    Anyone had any experience with such systems, seems cool solution?
    • CommentAuthorbillt
    • CommentTimeMar 24th 2013
     
    Can't see any mention of veg based balls, it seems to use resin beads. I doubt that you'll find anyone with experience as it seems to be a pretty new product.

    The first part of the theory is plausible, scale will form on the surface of the beads. It seems pretty unlikely that it will then fall off to be collected by another filter. They used to sell kettle anti-scale devices that worked in a similar way, a stainless steel mesh ball which was supposed to get the scale deposited on it in preference to the kettle - they didn't work.

    It seems to me to be similar to the magnetic softeners, an easy option with a plausible theory but no evidence. I bet it's not cheap either.

    AIUI there are only two methods of water softening that actually work, ion exchange and phosphate dosers. Why have you ruled out ion exchange softeners? If you want softened water they are the best option.
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeMar 24th 2013
     
    Not exactly water softening but if you want appliance limescale protection have you looked at polyphosphate dosing.
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeMar 24th 2013
     
    Ah, sorry William didn't see you'd already mentioned it.
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      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeMar 25th 2013
     
    Monarch say their salt-based system is 5-star and the scaleout is 4-star (they have to sell their top of the range product after all) but I haven't figured out what accounts for the missing star. Does anybody see it?

    And what are the pros and cons of polyphosphate versus salt?
  6.  
    Actually I was thinking I was going to use ion exchange type like the Aquabion until I visited the plumbers merchant who seemed quite genuine in their doubts about them. Looking at the web sites again though, there are lots of terms like patented technologies and proven track record, they have huge versions they use in commerical hotels etc so they must work, seem better solution than both salt or polyphosphate? The only annoying thing is that you have to throw away the whole copper fitting rather than just replace the zinc element, anyone seen a version where this not the case?
  7.  
    I have been reading your comments with interest, and would like to comment as below.
    Firstly Scaleout is not a softener as in a salt based softener. The Scaleout's primary function is to stop and remove scale. Additionally it helps reduce soap and detergent use by up to 40% (water hardness related savings). A salt based softener is up to 60%. Please do not confuse it to a magnet. A magnet is not guaranteed to work nor will its effect be permanent, offer descaling, soap savings, cleaner glasses, dishes etc. Yes the Scaleout does have its limitations, but a lot of these are what people expect of it, namely they think they will get a the same results as a salt based softener. A salt based softener is we feel the best you can get to overcome hard water issues in the home, but you do need a drain and a hard water tap, neither of these apply to the Scaleout. Yes the post filter does collect crystals, but it cannot collect all of them. Those that do pass through act as a descaler to existing scale, but they can show themselves as a white dust in extreme cases when the water has dried. This is simply overcome by wiping them with a damp cloth for an excellent finish around the home. May i ask that you look at our site www.scaleout.co.uk especially the Download section, where you will see all things technical plus case studies. If you have any questions after viewing, my staff will only be to pleased to help answer any questions that may arise.
    FYI: The beads are calcium and ceramic based. The crystals will attach themselves to the beads until the beads are full, and by weight and natural displacement will then fall way back into the water flow to the post filter. Polyphosphate does not soften water and has limitations at high temperature, additionally you are actually adding a substance to your water that is not always food grade! With the Scaleout we add nothing to the water, hence its success in the food service trials too.
    Happy to hear from you.
    With Regards
    Kevin Johnson M.D.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeMay 29th 2013
     
    This isn't a coment on the Scaleout product...

    Whatever you choose look for data on the flow rate it can achieve with water of a given hardness. Even conventional water softners have a limit. If the flow rate exceeds that limit then you get "breakthrough" and hard water (or not as soft water) appears at the outlets.

    The other thing to check is the pressure loss through the water softner. That's only likely to be an issue if you have quite low mains pressure but also if you are into high flow rate showers with body jets etc.
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeJun 22nd 2014
     
    What did you go with Phil?

    We're still tossing up between the likes of Aquabion, Scaleout and a salt-based system.

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