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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
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    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2014 edited
     
    I've entered the dark world of ISO pipe thread designations. For instance I have a plumbing fitting with an R 1/2 thread and one with a G1B thread.

    Am I right in saying that 1/2" and 3/4" brass fittings will fit these respectively?

    And what does the R, G and B stand for? And what does the 1 in G1B stand for?
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2014 edited
     
    constant diameter; denoted by the letter G.

    whose diameter increases or decreases along the length of the thread; denoted by the letter R.

    Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Standard_Pipe

    Note sure about B?
  1.  
    G = Parallel thread
    R = Tapered thread.

    G normally needs a washer or something to seal properly.
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2014 edited
     
    G1 could possibly refer to 1 inch (as in nominal size) BSPP http://www.ring-plug-thread-gages.com/PDChart/G-series-Fine-thread-data.html
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2014 edited
     
    That's what I thought but supplier of fitting said 3/4".

    Edit: this data sheet also it refers to it as "G1B (R3⁄4)" http://kamstrup.com/media/16684/file.pdf

    Edit 2: and there's also "G3/4B" thread designations on page 16 of this document: http://kamstrup.com/media/16718/file.pdf
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeApr 5th 2016 edited
     
    Well G1B ain't 3/4"

    I don't know quite where to measure but basically inside of thread is about 30 mm and outside of thread is about 33 mm.

    I need to go from this to a 22 mm copper pipe (or send it back to supplier). Any thoughts? I'm hoping it's simply a 1" thread, so I can use a 22 mm x 1" compression female iron.

    Edit: added a screenshot of the size chart. I'm 4th one down.
      IMG_0023.JPG
      IMG_0024.JPG
      size-chart.png
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeApr 5th 2016 edited
     
    Posted By: Shevek: “inside of thread is about 30 mm and outside of thread is about 33”

    That matches within reasonable measuring tolerance with the page Triassic references above:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Standard_Pipe

    Nominal size: 1"
    Minor diameter: 30.292 mm
    Major diameter: 33.249 mm

    PS, pick up a £8 set of digital calipers from Lidl next time they have them. Only used mine half a dozen times but they've been very handy when I have.

    http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/digital-vernier-calipers-7-99-lidl-473355

    PPS, cross-posted with Shevek's edit.

    PPPS, what's the plumbing fitting? A flow meter?
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeApr 5th 2016 edited
     
    Yay, thanks for that. It's a Multical 21 ultrasonic water meter:
    https://www.kamstrup.com/en-en/products-solutions/water-meters/residential-water-meter

    Edit: duh, and of course I already have a set of callipers! Clearly I still haven't got used to the idea of going to grab them instead of a ruler, lol
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeApr 6th 2016 edited
     
    ugh, not out of the woods yet.

    The thread on compression fittings are generally 20 mm deep, whereas the thread on the meter fitting is only 13 mm. So I can't screw it on far enough to make contact with the EPDM washer.

    Are there fittings out there with a shorter thread? I can't find any. Will an end feed female iron be any shorter? :sad:
      IMG_0029.JPG
      IMG_0031.JPG
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeApr 6th 2016 edited
     
    I know nothing but from a bit of Googling I think the words you want are “half coupling”. Mostly seems to be stainless steel fittings though. Cheapest:

    https://www.stilldragon.eu/en/adapters/194-1-inch-bsp-half-coupling.html

    Contrast with their full coupling:

    https://www.stilldragon.eu/en/16-adapters

    Not quite what you want but could either be a clue to more-useful searches or you could use as shown with a short bit of pipe with longer 1" thread on each end.

    I wonder if the half length is what the “B” in “G1B” means. Google doesn't seem to know.
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeApr 6th 2016 edited
     
    Thanks Ed. This meter is turning out to be more hassle than it's worth.
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeApr 6th 2016 edited
     
    • CommentAuthorGotanewlife
    • CommentTimeApr 7th 2016 edited
     
    Nahhh - you guys!!! All you need is to wrap some pipe thread string (do not use the tape), I use loctite 55, and then add a thin bead of pipe thread sealant (works anaerobically) - not really needed but so cheap and simple that I always belt and braces with it. As usual with plastic/metal, don't cross thread or apply huge force. Ditch the seal - it's only there because it is easier.
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeApr 7th 2016
     
    Yeah - did wonder about that but wasn't sure how well it would work with plastic to metal.
    • CommentAuthorringi
    • CommentTimeApr 7th 2016
     
    The easy way is to take the item to your local independent plumbing merchant and ask them.... The bit will cost more then at screwfix, but the saved time is worth it.
  2.  
    Posted By: Ed Daviesbut wasn't sure how well it would work with plastic to metal.
    I have done it loads of times and my house/garden is littered with such joints.
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeApr 7th 2016
     
    Ta, useful to know as I'll likely have a few pumps and things with these sort of connectors.
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeApr 9th 2016 edited
     
    Thanks guys. Is this what you mean by pipe string? http://www.plumbcenter.co.uk/product/jet-hemp-dispenser-80g/ ... what I don't like about this idea is that it would form a little cavity (where the male thread does meet the end of the female thread) that could cause turbulence just before water enters and leaves meter.

    Cylinder connectors don't work because they have a different thread. (shame they would have looked the tidiest)

    But I got these DN20 unions off the company that sold me the meter. They have a female BSP thread length of around 14-15mm. And I'll fit a compression or end feed coupling to these.
      image001.jpg
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeApr 9th 2016
     
    What are those cylinders for, then? They say 1" BSP. Tapered threads?

    I believe you can use Yak hair to seal the threads:

    http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2005/03/dont_shave_that.html :tongue:
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeApr 9th 2016
     
    I don't know what was going on there then but they didn't want to fit. Maybe if I put more force into it they would have gone on but they looked to be damaging the thread on the meter as I tried to screw them on. Returned them today but maybe I'll pick em up and try again tomorrow.

    Either way won't need the string, although I would like to be able to say there's Yak hair in my plumbing.
  3.  
    Posted By: ShevekIs this what you mean by pipe string? http://www.plumbcenter.co.uk/product/jet-hemp-dispenser-80g/

    No def not!!! Look here:
    http://www.loctite.co.uk/pipe-sealing-9886.htm
    The small space left might disturb the water slightly but it will be inconsequential.
    Paranoia is creeping in here: Keep it Simple!!!
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeApr 17th 2016 edited
     
    Ugh, this bloody meter, wish I'd taken your advice. It's 3AM and I have a little disaster on my hands. Was under pressure to get the boiler plumbed in and didn't have the sealing cord; so I've used the DN20 unions as above, with female compression fittings, but the joint between these unions and the compression fittings is leaking.

    I used PTFE + pipe thread compound on these joints so why are they leaking?
      leak.jpg
  4.  
    So you're relying on the fibre washer to seal between the mating face of the plastic meter and the inside mating face of the Union. So basically a std tap or flexible hose type thing. Problem with fibre (and rubber) washers is they are often not a good fit - yes even 'right over' you will cover some or most of the mating faces but fibre washers are also very sensitive to how much pressure you apply when tightening them as they rely to some degree on getting wet and expanding to make a HP seal, rather than filling all the space. I can tell you that when you open up those joints you will find the fibre seal was not central and has shredded when you tightened it. My advice is always to use rubber seals (exception is when supplied as part of a professional grade pump union) and, initially at least, tighten such that the seal is horizontal so as to give the best chance of it staying central.

    Too late now but there is no such thing as too many gate valves. Sadly I notice there is no valve on the furthest right CW pipe. So that's a lot of draining before you can get to the thing. So don't be cheap and quick about this: cut that lowest copper pipe where it runs horizontally towards the right wall and fit a valve while you are at it - remember this is a cheap chinese meter....

    Win some lose some - but learn every day....nice tidy work btw!
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeApr 17th 2016 edited
     
    Ha, yes, the lack of drain valve on that pipe caused a problem, but not too bad because I was able to drain most of it through the valves adjacent to the meter.

    The problem isn't the joint to the meter (I went with rubber washers for there), it's the joint between the unions and the female compression couplings. I didn't use a washer at all on that joint, I thought you simply use compound and PTFE. In fact I've opened that joint up and I don't see how a washer would even work as there's no real face to seal against.

    It's my first shot at copper plumbing so I was expecting something like this, just preferably not at 3 in the morning, lol.
      coupling.JPG
  5.  
    I really hate PTFE tape - once you use the PTFE string you'll kick yourself for not having started with it sooner. That word compound worries me a bit - are you sure it is a anaerobic sealant that is a slightly viscous liquid, often blue, usually called a thread sealant or thread lock.

    I guess you just messed up with your PTFE tape. Done right the thread lock isn't needed.

    My first plumbing job was installing a 40kW wood burner, 2500ltr TS and all the associated gubbins; never had a problem at 3am mind but I didn't install enough gate valves or 3-part fittings so 1/sometimes getting stuff apart is a nightmare and 2/one day I might have to drain down a couple of thousand litres of water with several hundred pounds worth of anti-rust in it - scary, very scary.

    You are going to make a significant effort with the pipe insulation etc I assume - I realise it is inside the envelope but still loads of benefits to putting some effort in.
  6.  
    Brass threads on fittings used with copper pipe are parallel threads. (Iron fittings have taper threads and are easier to get a seal) The parallel threads can be a bit of a pain to get water tight. Remake the joint with a good quantity of Loctite 55 as recommended by Gotanewlife. (And score / roughen the threads before applying the Loctite to stop the action of screwing up the threads from winding out the sealant.)

    I think I would have used soldered fittings instead of the DN20 unions from the company and saved the trouble / expense of the compression fittings plus the DN20 fittings.
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeApr 17th 2016
     
    Okay, I've swapped the meter out for a length of pipe for now. Tempted to leave the bloody thing off. All it's there for is allow us to monitor leaks between here and the footpath (and to monitor water use more conveniently).

    I'm using two types of compound: jointing compound, which I've been using on the end of the pipe with compression fittings. And pipe thread compound, which I've been using in conjunction with PTFE tape for threaded connections (including the aforementioned failed joint). I'll get some Loctite 55 and hopefully that'll do the job (shame it's a bit hard to get hold of).

    Wasn't planning on insulating those pipes. I'll see how it goes with condensation on the cold ones and maybe change my mind.

    Thanks for your help guys.
  7.  
    Posted By: ShevekI'll see how it goes with condensation on the cold ones
    Shouldn't need it in there - I was thinking of the hot ones.
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