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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

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    • CommentAuthordaveking66
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2012
     
    Can anyone point me in the direction of a distributor who holds the 75mm diameter semi rigid ducting by Airflow?
    I live in London.

    I've been pointed towards the climate center division of the Part centre, but the earliest they can get hold of this is 1 week. If anyone can let me know of other suppliers who might be able to get hold of it sooner than this I'd be grateful.

    Thanks for your help.
    • CommentAuthorDarylP
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2012
     
    allergyplus, 01926612690 ask for 'Claire'
    They seem to be the cheapest in the UK at the moment.

    Let us know how you get on ...:smile:
    • CommentAuthordaveking66
    • CommentTimeJul 17th 2012
     
    Thanks for the steer,

    Claire has just quoted me for the whole system which seemed pretty good. Sounds like they offer services for commissioning and technical support too, which I don't think is provided by the parts centre.

    thanks,

    Dave
    • CommentAuthoran02ew
    • CommentTimeAug 21st 2012
     
    I have a related question. Just received a MVHR quote from "allergy plus" a HRV 10Q plus unit with their air flex pro 75 ducting (semi rigid continuous) should i have concerned with this small semi rigid duct? It only has a 63 mm ID. The drawing show some large rooms and all extracts have 2 pipes which will help but the kitchen has an extract value of 53m3/h (according to there calcs) this seems a lot of air to pass through two small pipes in 1 hour?
    • CommentAuthorHairlocks
    • CommentTimeAug 21st 2012 edited
     
    My guess is that 53m3/h though 2 x 63 mm would be a little noisy, but I have only installed my ducting not bought the unit yet. I have used 125mm to be on the safe side. (2 supply and 2 extract in my kitchen/dinner with a wood stove)
    • CommentAuthoran02ew
    • CommentTimeAug 21st 2012
     
    How could i calc the fan speed or flow rate required to delivery 53m3/h through 2x63mm pipes
    • CommentAuthorborpin
    • CommentTimeAug 21st 2012
     
    Well I may be completely wrong, but it may be that the air needs to be moved at 0.59 m/s. Does not tell me how noisy that is though!
    • CommentAuthoran02ew
    • CommentTimeAug 21st 2012
     
    How do i work that out? does that seem excessive for mvhr? i am not only concern with noise but if the system has been well designed.
    • CommentAuthorborpin
    • CommentTimeAug 22nd 2012
     
    53/60/60 = m3/s
    Pi R2 = .063x3.14 m2 (and there are 2 of them)
    divide first by second gives you m/s.

    Of course this could be completely wrong!
    • CommentAuthorborpin
    • CommentTimeAug 22nd 2012
     
    I am looking at the same system but my unit is close to the kitchen so if I need more extract vents that is easily solved. Note the SP figure they quote is high as they use a F3 filter which filters more out (so fan works harder to pull air in).
    • CommentAuthoran02ew
    • CommentTimeAug 22nd 2012
     
    Posted By: borpin53/60/60 = m3/s
    Pi R2 = .063x3.14 m2 (and there are 2 of them)
    divide first by second gives you m/s.


    That seem obvious when you put it like that. you should have been a maths teacher.

    I get 0.037 is that m/s? in other words 0.037 meters (37mm) of air has to extract though the pipes ever second? that doesnt seem excessive. what do you think?
    • CommentAuthorHairlocks
    • CommentTimeAug 22nd 2012
     
    53/60/60=0.0147
    0.0315*0.0315*3.142*2=0.00312

    This gives 4.74 m/s not sure how that will sound though.

    I tried to keep my speed below 2 m/s. Higher and the fans have to work harder to overcome the pressure drop.
    • CommentAuthoran02ew
    • CommentTimeAug 22nd 2012
     
    Posted By: Hairlocks53/60/60=0.0147
    0.0315*0.0315*3.142*2=0.00312

    :shocked:


    But why 0.0315*0.0315*3.142*2=0.00312, area of pipe is .063m (63mm) /2 for radius then squared so multipy by its self then */ by pi 3.142

    i get 2.36m/s when all calcs done. is this correct? if so what do you think?
    • CommentAuthorSprocket
    • CommentTimeAug 22nd 2012
     
    Hairlocks is right.

    Area is pi r squared. 3.14 * 0.0315 * 0.0315 (there is no *2) is .00312
    53m3/hr / 0.00312 m2 is 17000 m/hr
    /(60*60) to convert to m/s gets you about 4.72 m/s

    That is a pretty fast airflow. It will be fairly noisy, especially if the walls of the duct are not completely smooth.
    However, this is the extract so there might not be a huge amount of noise at the extract port. There will be noise in the pipe which will be heard where the pipe passes.

    What it will be is inefficent. The friction in that pipe at that velocity will mean quite a pressure drop at the wider end of the pipe (where the 63mm pipe branches off) and at the MVHR. This back pressure at the MVHR will mean its fans have to work hard so you will also get more noise at the MVHR box itself. Where is it sited?

    But most importantly, if you have this extract you must have a matching outlet that lets a similar amount of air into the building. If it flows at a similar velocity it will be very noisy. Where is it and how big is it?

    For comparison, we have 70m3/hr running in 150mm id duct. Extracts are quiet. Exhaust can still be noisy (too noisy to tolerate inside at night) if on the end of a long duct.
    • CommentAuthorSprocket
    • CommentTimeAug 22nd 2012 edited
     
    OOps. just reread and saw that you have 2 extracts sharing the flow?
    So there is indeed a missing factor of 2 in the above.
    So you will have half that flow at each extract if they are properly balanced.
    So yes, you were right at 2.4m/s
    That is not nearly so bad but it will be noticeable. Doesn't seem unreasonable for a kitchen unless you want your kitchen to be silent.

    Presumably the pipe beyond where they join is wider (double the area would be 90mm id to give the same velocity)?

    I still think I would fit wider ducting than 63mm id if you can do so easily.
    And I'd still like to hear about the internal inlet/exhaust.
    • CommentAuthoran02ew
    • CommentTimeAug 22nd 2012
     
    The pipe is air flex pro75 63 mm id semi rigid pipe(as thread title) it has smooth inside surface even when bent. Supposed to be easier to install? The kitchen is part of a much larger room, open plan design. Whole room volume 150mm. 1 extract 53m3/h, 1 supply 46m3/h, 2x63mm id pipe supply each terminal fitting. All other extracts rooms (7 in total) have 33m3/h each with 2x63mm id pipes connected,
    Total extract =276m3/h
    Total supply 276m3/h
    Is this excessive for unit?
    • CommentAuthorGreenPaddy
    • CommentTimeAug 22nd 2012
     
    ano2ew,
    answered earlier questions on the other thread this is running on. The unit should be fine for your volume (by the sounds of the 150mm ducts and multiple flexi's - hence lowish pressure drop), but as I mentioned on the other thread, I'm not sure if the 276m3/h is the normal or the boost rate. My guess is it's the volumetric calc (which usually sets the flow requirement - of the various calc methods to meet regs) - which according to regs would be the 'normal' setting. However, in reality, you'll probably find this is excessive, and so you'll run at a much reduced set-back flow for most of the time.

    Check what the designers say on this, because if you are expected to run at 276m3/h all the time with a further level for boost, you may have an issue. This 276m3/h rate will have the MVHR unit towards it upper end, which will undoubtedly be quite noisy, consuming a lot of power (possibly around 135W), and turning over a lot of air which will need heat input. Ideally you want to be running about half the rated 276, so there is little running noise, and power consumption around 30W or 40W.

    Just a thought, but 2 extracts say on either side of the cooker hood, can give a better air-washing effect.
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