"This has got to be worth a discussion"

Why? Other than for sake of argument.

It's all been said by MacKay.

The most interesting comment in the first link is the one pointing out that if we've had any statistically significant success at reducing OUR emissions, it's because we've exported manufacturing and its demand for energy to China and India.

The most interesting comment in the first link is the one pointing out that if we've had any statistically significant success at reducing OUR emissions, it's because we've exported manufacturing and its demand for energy to China and India.

now that is creative energy accounting

Indeed, as he (MacKay) explained, "stuff" renders complicated the already-complex.

(As a related aside, some interesting downloadable presentation slides available here: http://www.integrated-energy.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=48&Itemid=93 )

"reducing OUR emissions, it's because we've exported manufacturing and its demand for energy to China and India."
Outsourced emissions
Yes our government offers up sats. on how we in UK have reduce our carbon emissions over the last few years , when really all we've done is export them. They've been aware of this for several years and advised by various in house reports that a consumption based view gives a clearer picture.

One advantage to 'exporting' our energy consumption is that the emerging economies to the East are building newer infrastructure where the 'per capita' emissions are lower. Or in plain English, they are more energy efficient than us, if only by denying a large percentage of their indigenous population access to cheap energy.
We can't have our cake and eat it as they say. If we are really serious about energy efficiency and low carbon generation technology then we may in time become a manufacturing centre again (though this is more exchange rate driven than unit cost driven).

James
Yes I agree that is should be shown. Food in my 'corner shop' has the carbon footprint on a lot of the goods, so it is starting. I am sure before too long it will be a marketing tool to bamboozle the public more.
Had a quick look at China's and Japan's CO2/kWhe and they are 0.83 and 0.34 kg/kWh. Now this is only electricity, so will only be a percentage of the total, but China will have to make twice as much 'stuff' and Japan can make slightly less for any given kWhe to equal the UK.

Gavin
Assuming an 'all electric' process China would have to produce twice as much per kWh as their carbon intensity is about double (0.83 compared to 0.45 kg/kWh, no point bickering over decimals). I would have thought that with the scale they work at that this is quite feasible. Take into account the per capita usage (or what the workforce uses when not working) and it becomes even better. Now I know that electricity is only part of the process and there are all sorts of other factors that will affect door to door embodied energy levels.

As an aside, not everything in China is hunky dory, they turn the towns off to keep the factories running but will now be turning the factories off as well. From today's Telegraph.
"China braced for fall in metal output

Summer energy shortages in China will hit the country's production of metals and bolster global prices, Commerzbank said.
"It is often forgotten that China is not only the world's largest metal consumer but also its largest producer," analysts at the German bank state said. "Consequently, electricity rationing in the country in the next few months should also hit the metals industry hard and support prices."
Commerzbank believes falls in China's metal output on the back of likely electricity shortages are not yet sufficiently priced into metal prices.
"While the China Electricity Council had initially expected an electricity deficit of 30 gigawatts, the electricity provider State Grid now expects a shortage of up to 40 gigawatts, if coal shipments do not pick up soon," it said.
Rising thermal coal prices coupled with government caps on the price of energy is making electricity generation unprofitable in many parts of China.
Coal accounts for more than 70pc of the fuel requirements of power plants in the Asian nation, Commerzbank notes.
Some coal-fired power stations in provinces such as Gansu, Hubei, Hunan, Shanxi and Shaanxi have closed, resulting in the worst electricity deficit since 2004, the official Xinhua News Agency said last week. "

At least `China has the courage to use clean efficient coal technology similar to that developed at Buggendun not only being far more efficient than our old coal fired stations but with the ability to capture carbon at source.

Something to be said for state-control after all then?

Wherefore the spirit of unregulated capitalism?

Think this has already happened when the German Government gave out permits to pollute willy nilly about 4 years ago. A direct Carbon tax is so much simpler and easier. As soon as there is a 'swapping, system then trouble starts.

The job of a government is to set minimum standards and create infrastructures that allows commerce to flourish, this does not mean that they have to build everything. Garden fences are usually placed on property boundaries, one would not expect the government to come and build a fence around every property, what they do instead is provide a legal framework so that disputes can be settled.

To hell on a hand cart, it would appear. What we've been committed to in the race to reduce global CO2 is little more than pissing into the sea...

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/developing-economies-see-no-escape-coal-033345184.html