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General: New roads -- no more needed?

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  1.  
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeSep 21st 2007
     
    Do we need ant more new roads?
    • CommentAuthorchuckey
    • CommentTimeSep 21st 2007
     
    We still require by-passes. Some areas such as Wensleydale( pop 30,000?) are still being approached by driving down the main road from Leeming then having to turn right in the centre of Bedale. This makes Bedale a not very nice place to be in, and wastes valuable petrol and diesel while the traffic grinds to a halt. There is a local railway that is running but it is not connected to the rest of the rail network. Also the logistics of shipping sheep and cattle out and hay and fodder in are not suitable for a railway line.
    Frank
    • CommentAuthorbiffvernon
    • CommentTimeSep 21st 2007
     
    Bedale is a very nice place to be in, whatever.
    • CommentAuthorcaliwag
    • CommentTimeSep 21st 2007
     
    Mmmm. I live in the middle of York...7 mins from station and 1 min from quite a fine organic supermarket. I don't have a car and I don't have an allotment (yet), but it is very civilised living...I walk everywhere.
    In the variety of local real ale selling bars I meet an affable bunch, as well as the occasional swell of partying punters (but with no problems in 20 years) and I have to recommend this level of urban living.
    I would have thought York compares quite well with Canterbury, Chester, Durham, Shrewbury, Harrogate, Skipton etc etc for places to enjoy a good life. Sort of depends on your expectations though.
    There is a road issue in York, but only because people insist in driving through the middle...to just get to the other end of the inner ring road...most odd (mind there are quite a few show-offs...should that be shows-off?)
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeSep 21st 2007
     
    Are we saying that bypasses (or byes-pass) are OK?
    • CommentAuthorbiffvernon
    • CommentTimeSep 21st 2007
     
    Ah the York Brewery, http://www.yorkbrew.demon.co.uk/ , my daughter worked there while at uni. Another excellent place.
    • CommentAuthorcaliwag
    • CommentTimeSep 21st 2007
     
    Sadly in York it would appear to be the situation.
    The bypass (in a typical DOT shortchanging Northern way...see Leeds trams) is overwhelmed by people seemingly bypassing York from all points West to Leeds.
    But, of course it's a two laner and should have been (from day one) a dual carriageway.
    Don't get me started on short-termism (all politicians' thinking) but if ever there was a road that should have been built as a dual carriageway, it's the York ring road...just to keep all the commuting f***whits out of town.
    But then, of course, the railways in the area have been completely underfunded and ignored. (viz the pathetic attempts to open Haxby )
    Actually I don't want this to be a road/rail rant, because we get nowhere, because goverments hate railways (cost, nimbies, too anti-car, too democratic blah blah), but you did ask!
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2007 edited
     
    What if transport (road, rail;, even air) became low- or zero-carbon fuel-wise, and non-polluting (chemical and noise), which is a growing possibility. Where would that leave the road versus rail argument, the case against lorry growth, private car growth and air travel growth (three separate issues) and the anti-roadbuilding argument? Throw in Monbiot's suggestion about coach travel http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2006/12/05/life-coaching/ and it looks like the end of local rail to me (other than as a long-distance competitor to air).
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2007
     
    It all sounds very nice but why is it not happening now?

    The railways have a lot to offer both for short and long journeys. They are far more efficient and less polluting than road transport too.

    Bring back the trams and trolley buses in cities.

    No more new roads please.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2007 edited
     
    Posted By: tonybut why is it not happening now?
    Don't be impatient - they've only had 175yrs (rail) or 120yrs (IC/road) to think about it!
    • CommentAuthorcaliwag
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2007
     
    Mmm. Sadly it can only be commuting that funds railways. In this area (York) there are a number of projects, (York- Beverley, Harrogate-Ripon, maybe to put Tadcaster or Wetherby on the map, reopening of Haxby, Strensal, Copmanthorpe blah bl;ah) but as long as roads are cheap, these schemes will never ever fit the treasuries format.
    This is why the government will not countenance any serious spending on reopenings...just junction juggling...one day perhaps, but not in the near future.
    Even the reopenning of bits of the Waverly route (in Scotland) is now questioned, despit the fact that land and property values have shot up as a result of the prospect of a train srevice...lost in the 70s

    Short term thinking at it's best...why even vote, they're all the same
  12.  
    I've always considered buses on dedicated bus routes to be a more cost effective means of public transport than trains. They are far cheaper to operate, much more flexible and the changes to the infrastucture are minimal. I would like to see a comparison of the costs and benefits of light rail systems (like the one being implemented in Nottingham) with what an equivalent investment in the the local bus network could have done. I suspect the results might shock a few people. Could it be that light rail has more to do with urban regeneration than cost effective public transport?
    • CommentAuthorcaliwag
    • CommentTimeSep 24th 2007
     
    Keep an eye on www.castiron.org.uk and make up your own minds...
  14.  
    Interesting that caliwag. I've never quite understood why buses need guiding? That's what the driver's for. Unless it allows you to do without a driver then what's the point? They will just fall asleep if they don't have to steer...

    There is plenty of capacity on the roads, we are just using it at the same time (so we need flexible working/schooling patterns) and travelling alone in cars (so we should give buses priority to encourage us to use these more efficient vehicles).

    I think the railway is great for intercity travel but these routes are already often at capacity and I don't think the investment is going to be there to expand i.e. lay new track. I prefer the bus based model using motorway services as bus stations for an intercity express coach service linking into local bus services and light rail/metro systems where they already exist.

    The rail network is one of those "bottomless pits", like the NHS, where you pour money for years but everybody complains that it is still crap. Maybe we could do a lot more with the same money by thinking about better ways to use the road network, which we will have to continue to maintain in any case for car users.
    • CommentAuthorJoinerbird
    • CommentTimeSep 25th 2007
     
    I reckon we do need some new roads, but will those that decide these things be able to manage a sustainable "swop" for the existing crap and congested roads?? When will all roads in builtup areas have those cycle lane thingys?? As for trains and things, I find it quite easy to hop on a train in notts with my bike with some train companys, and virtually impossible on others (cough, Virgin).
    A little village in south devon called Modbury most certainly do with a byepass, but idealy only in the summer......
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeSep 25th 2007
     
    Are you in Modbury, joinerbird? The epicentre of the world anti-carrier-bag-movement?
    • CommentAuthorJoinerbird
    • CommentTimeSep 25th 2007
     
    nnooooonoo, I wish! Its my little bit of summer heaven, there is a little farm down near wonwell beach.....bliss....
    Actually, as I have managed to make the very simple move towards zero carrier bag shopping (Im alright for a bag thanks), I didnt even realise the village was bag free till the last shopping trip into the deli on the high street.....where it all began. Im a big fan of onya bags, made from parachutes, they pack up into a tiny bag that you can easy fit in your pocket, so you've always got one "on ya"

    Any advise pls on how to persude my LA to traffic calm my suburban street?? Used by anti social motor cyclists, car drivers and the like to get to Tesscos REALLY quickly cause they might starve....
    As all the other roads in the area have been "calmed", every man and his dog find it much easier to turn right then left and then they are bump free to zoom down my street....grrr....
    I have already aske the LA about it, but they said that 50k was too much to spend on keeping our children and pets safe.... and apparently when asked, the residents on my street said a BIG NO to calming!! (fancy asking a bunch of trailer trash muppetts) I was gonna try the whole "we dont need huge speed bumps to slow people down thing".....
    You guys are good with words, what would you say??
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeSep 25th 2007
     
    Speed camera or a placebo one or a diy one?
    • CommentAuthorcaliwag
    • CommentTimeSep 25th 2007
     
    You could ask you local councillor to take up the issue...perhaps suggest a couple of chicanes, with different priorities to slow stuff down.

    Mind you I hate more and more road "furniture" so it does need to be subtle.
  20.  
    You need a "Stinger" Joinerbird. The effect on trade at Tesco would be devastating....could be hard to get hold of one though... shame...

    There is a blind bend just in front of my house and we don't have a pavement on my side of the road. People use the road as a high speed rat run which causes me problems when I am in and out with a double buggy. There are no parking restrictions on the narrow road and people usually park on the opposite side with the traffic coming down my side. I have in the past condidered positioning a couple of £50 "bummers", taxed and tested with insurance of course, either side of my gateway to give me some protection from oncoming traffic when I come out of my gate. I don't see how anyone could stop me doing this as I would not be breaking any laws.

    The cost put me off, and I'm moving now anyway, but there is perhaps potential for a bit of DIY chicane installation for a group of residents with the cash to try it?
    • CommentAuthorJoinerbird
    • CommentTimeSep 25th 2007
     
    Good idea caliwag!! I agree bout the road furniture....

    Yerss, I thought about the stinger, esp for one consistant offender, a motor cyclist who thinks that 50 is fine on my street with its school at the top and at the bottom!!

    This traffic problem sort of illustrates my point about trading off a poorly managed route with a better safer option?? Since the unthinking council made it sooo tiresome for asbo drivers to take the direct route to the shops, these smart yokels outwitted them at the council easily by taking a little detour, helped by their power steering they wont even notice the inconvenience of having to turn off route......

    as for the new roads being better, the same offending council mentioned above have built a new road on the outskirts of the city, altering the route in that area, causing any resident who wants to go the other way an increase of 8 miles per journey......stupid!!

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