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Housing - New Build: Timber Frame Specification - or should that be blockwork? (edited)

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  1.  
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2013 edited
     
    The architect is progressing with the final design for the house, so I've started to consider the next steps, in particular pricing up the timber frame.

    I want to be able to compare eggs with eggs, so should I simply send the various timber frame companys a copy of the drawings and our target U value, or should I be asking for something else (particular wall cross section for example?).

    Never bought a timber frame before, so not sure what I should be asking for so as to get a comparable outcome that enables me to establish which company would be best, in terms of price and quality of build.
    • CommentAuthorDarylP
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2013
     
    Triassic, ask them for the U-value of the wall section that they are offering you, and a sectional breakdown.
    If they can't/don't, ask another company, there are lots to choose from out there!

    Some TF-co's 'get' energy efficiency and saving on your running costs, & some chose not to....

    Good luck:smile:
  3.  
    Best ask them about what details they use to minimise cold bridges while you are at it.

    That will help sort out the wheat from the chaff.
    • CommentAuthorDarylP
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2013
     
    Good point, Chris:bigsmile: altho' I suspect Triassic will be met with silence and shrugs..... :sad:
    Very few (none) of the TF-co's I deal with even know what heatloss through thermal bridges (Htb) is, or how to mitigate it......?

    :cry:
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2013
     
    Why buy a timber frame when you could so easily make it yourself, cheaper better and if you make it beside where you are going to stand it up no lumping it about either.
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2013 edited
     
    Posted By: tonyWhy buy a timber frame when you could so easily make it yourself, cheaper better and if you make it beside where you are going to stand it up no lumping it about either.
    Must admit that I'm coming round to your way of thinking.

    I have a difficult access and a sloping site. The only place to park a HGV to unload is on a narrow country lane, which is in constant use as it links the 2 halves of our village. There's no space around the vehicle to use a fork truck or telehandler, due to stone walls on either side of the road, so would have to use a truck mounted Hiab and set the items down in the driveway area. I'd then have to cart the panels up a tight access track, round a hairpin bend and onto site, assuming the panels small enough to manhandle.

    So I have architects drawings but who would design and detail the timber frame?

    Maybe blockwork with Denby Dale deep fill cavitys would be easier!
    • CommentAuthorTimber
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2013
     
    If on a sloping site - blockwork may be better as you shouldn't put timber frame below ground level!
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2013
     
    Posted By: Timbershouldn't put timber frame below ground level!
    I was going to construct an ICF semi basement, open to the front, and build off the top of that.
    • CommentAuthorPaulJ
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2013
     
    Make sure your ICF has up-to-date BBA cert or your warranty company may get twitchy. Agree with others that stick built may be better if TF is what you want. I like Tony's brick / block house if you can afford 500mm + walls.
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2013
     
    Posted By: PaulJwarranty company may get twitchy
    Do I need a warranty company? What do they do?
    • CommentAuthorDarylP
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2013
     
    If you want to sell, remortgage or borrow against your proposed dwelling, you will need an Architect's Cert, or NHBC/Zurich warranty.

    Cheers:smile:
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2013
     
    Posted By: DarylPyou will need an Architect's Cert
    Ah - Architects cert it is then!! Thanks.
    • CommentAuthorCerisy
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2013
     
    Are you starting from the right point? Our frame came from a UK manufacturer, but at no time did I consider using their suggested insulated version. No criticism of them, their frames are excellent - but they aren't into the levels of insulation we wanted and they had never been asked for roof trusses that allow the loft insulation to lay over the top of the walls (eliminating the cold bridge). Our design developed from research into the PassivHaus principles and all guidance on this forum and we (okay, I) have to take the responsibility for the insulation levels and any cold bridging issues.

    We did consider building the frame ourselves, but the price erected from the UK + full structural design / responsibility just made it too good to turn down. We've been at it for a year and it'll be at least another year to get it habitable, if we had gone for the self-built frame it would have probably added 6 - 9 months. We are well over 60, so that wasn't an option for us!!

    Look at how others are resolving the issues - we are always happy to share details - or do some site visits!!
    • CommentAuthorborpin
    • CommentTimeDec 19th 2013
     
    The biggest headache will be the roof trusses, more so if they are attic trusses.

    I have done a self built (well the joiner did it) TF + Trusses and a steel frame. I would not recommend the steel frame for the walls but do recomend it for the roof. U-Roof works really well, is self supporting & racking so no purlins etc and will go on a TF.

    If you can get a largeish trailer behind a 4x4 up the track, this may be the way to move prebuilt panels. If not you will want to do it on site. The U-Roof panels are very similar to TF panels in size and moveability.

    However, if you do look at U-Roof, consider your design again as the roof allows far more freedom as it does not need as much support form below. If I had realised that earlier, I would have changed the internal layout.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeDec 19th 2013
     
    Posted By: TriassicI was going to construct an ICF semi basement, open to the front, and build off the top of that.
    Why not carry on the the ICF?
  16.  
    Especially if there is enough room for a concrete pump and readymix deliveries - have the real mass of the house delivered in liquid form along a tube!

    I agree with Brian about the U-Roof panels (I have used them as well as ICF in my build), especially if you are looking to utilise the loft space, a large room in the roof construction that would require large heavy timber trusses and mechanical lifting devices can be put up by hand with next to no site area required for lifting.
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeDec 19th 2013
     
    Posted By: SteamyTeaWhy not carry on the the ICF?
    Sorry, isn't this the _green_ building forum? Aren't there at least reasonable arguments for keeping the use of concrete to a minimum?
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeDec 19th 2013
     
    Yes, but it is the lifetime value that is important and not just the initial emissions. Though I would prefer all timber.

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