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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
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Heating and cooling: Kingspan Range Tribune Xe hot water cylinders

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    • CommentAuthorcjard
    • CommentTimeMar 13th 2016 edited
     
    I like the look of these from the brochure - thicker insulation, cold diffuser, compact coil in coil, side mounted outlet for a fully insulated lid, 25% lower standing heat losses and integrated air bubble acting as an EV so no external EV. Very neat. Good price too

    Buuut, as best I can determine (one reference in a sales brochure) the coil is 24kw on the 300l. The solar option has an additional 1sqm coil and, as far as I can find, you multiply the area by 33.333 and you get your kW, which means the solar coil is actually a greater transfer capacity than the primary coil..

    So, i'm confused.. A dedicated heat pump cylinder (there seems no dedicated "low grade heat" version of a Tribune - the sales brochure mentions renewables as biomass, micro-chp, solar thermal, wbs) from a rival co will have a 3 to 3.3 sqm coil, knocking on for 110kw. Apparently, a large coil is used for a better reheat time with low grade heat but surely if the coil transfer ability is greater than the heat source supply kw, then it functions adequately?

    Why does a 15kw heat pump input to a 110kw coil, and a 28kw boiler input to a 18-24 kw coil? doesn't make sense to me...

    Is there some function of the maths i'm missing, like the delta T making a difference?
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeMar 13th 2016
     
    Yes, delta T would make a difference. Very hot water from a boiler would need less area to transfer the same amount of heat as water only a bit warmer than the tank water from a heat pump.

    What would be nice to know is the temperature difference at which the coils' powers are rated.
    • CommentAuthorcjard
    • CommentTimeMar 15th 2016
     
    Here's a brochure from joule, given to understand they know a thing or two about cylinders..

    http://sourceenergy.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Cyclone+HW+cylinder+for+MasterTherm+heatpump.pdf


    Dedicated heat pump cylinder with a 24kw primary coil?!
    • CommentAuthorcjard
    • CommentTimeMar 15th 2016
     
    It's by no means scientific, but I reckon the coils in a kingspan unit are probably 350mm diameter for the outer coil and 250 for the inner. Pipe dia of 22mm... Few bits of pi and that gives 0.07sqm per turn for the out and 0.055 sqm per turn for the inner. Brochure draws 7 turns which I make to be a .8 sqm coil at best. If it were 28mm that might be 1.1..

    Heat pump coil looks like it might take up most of the cylinder. I'll ring Range and ask them
    • CommentAuthorringi
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2016
     
    cjard where have you seen these at a good price?
    • CommentAuthorringi
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2016
     
    Even for a gas boiler, having a larger coil area would let the boiler condense more of the reheat cycle.

    (If I was brave I would design a system that used a large PHE with a diverter value, so most of the time it heated the cylinders from the bottom (side to side) to get the best condensing, but would switch to “top to bottom” heating if there was no hot water left at the top of the cylinder.)
    • CommentAuthorcjard
    • CommentTimeMar 22nd 2016
     
    price wise, plumbnation (travis perkins). Fabdec excelsior also looked good, though I've ended up stuck with a telford tempest. Not much in it, mind and the tempest is much shorter than the others so I can mount stuff above it..

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