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General: Can anyone help and advise on Thermal Imaging Devices

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  1.  
    • CommentAuthorbxman
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2022
     
    Several Local Councils I understand have equipment that they either use and/or loan to householders to assist in improving the energy efficiency of buildings in the local area .

    I have suggested our district should do the same and it has been well received however there is a perception that such equipment is still way beyond their budget.

    Can any of you recommend suitable equipment that would do the job and give an indication of it's cost .

    And if possible any experience of similar schemes that worked or
    were there pitfalls that caused them to fail.


    Many thanks for reading .

    cheers Patrick
    • CommentAuthorbhommels
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2022 edited
     
    Hi Patrick
    Our district council purchased 5 FLIR C2 cameras. These are lightweight, simple to use, and good enough for building surveys. The current C3-X version costs around £ 500 ex VAT.

    For running the actual loan scheme, the council was found willing to partner up with the local carbon footprint reduction organisation, which is (almost) entirely volunteer based.
    It took some persuasion for the council to embark on this, and it has been a great success, which they recognised, and the scheme will run again this winter. Local volunteers host the cameras during the winter season, not the council. This means the loan cameras are accessible outside office hours, and hosts are scattered across the area so that there is always one near you.

    The carbon footprint organisation also provides Thermal Imaging training which makes it even more efficient and empowering. They have been running a TI training and camera loan scheme for a few years already, based on 2-3 loan cameras, which were quite expensive at the time. For them it was not much of an effort to scale up their programme, although the interest this year is quite overwhelming. 100+ people interested in the first TI training in November!

    I can really recommend a similar setup if there is the opportunity. Getting the cameras is one thing, getting them in the hands of the people who would benefit from these, with a bit of training, is quite another.
    • CommentAuthorbxman
    • CommentTimeOct 22nd 2022
     
    Thanks @bhommels that sounds great most encouraging .
    Is there a chance you could pm me the name of your council as it is possible my local one would like to make contact .

    It is a fast moving technology does any one else have ideas about equipment I know some phones have this capability now what else is out there ?
    • CommentAuthorneelpeel
    • CommentTimeOct 22nd 2022 edited
     
    I got a cheapo FLIR One (plug into phone type) last year for the purposes of surveying my home for areas to focus on for insulating.

    It has proved very useful and at about £160 on Amazon it's an inexpensive way highlight areas of concern.

    However... annoyingly you can't fix the scale on the Flir software (you can on the more expensive Pro version I think). I did manage to do this by loading 3rd party software, but this is maybe too faffy for a loan item.
    • CommentAuthorrevor
    • CommentTimeOct 24th 2022
     
    If you need to change your phone there is a Flir phone in the CAT series. The phones are rugged so ideal for working outside. construction. agricultural environments etc. https://www.catphones.com/en-gb/.
    The FLIR one as you might expect is pricey but could be worthwhile for anyone with a lot of work for it,
  6.  
    I also have the FLIR One (cheap secondhand off e-bay) and have found that whilst it's quite intuitive to use, it only generally tells you what you already know. e.g. the cold spots are where you can feel them, rather than the finer details.

    For a local authority, I'd recommend that you spend the money on fewer, better spec units with higher resolution, if the budget will go that far.
    • CommentAuthorTimSmall
    • CommentTimeOct 28th 2022
     
    I don't think they're necessarily a good choice for a loan unit, but FWIW the "Seek Thermal" (which also plug into a smartphone) cameras have significantly better resolution than Flir One does.
    • CommentAuthorwookey
    • CommentTimeOct 28th 2022
     
    • CommentAuthorbxman
    • CommentTimeOct 29th 2022 edited
     
    Thanks everyone

    I have just found this guide which may I hope cut down on some of my future questions-

    Thermal Camera Buyers Guide under $1500 - Pt 1

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_t8FNb7Wu0

    Thermal Camera Buyers Guide under $1500 - Pt 2

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWiyd2LYF24

    Thermal Camera Buyers Guide under $1500 - Pt 3

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7l9a8kK4u8I





    not withstanding
    Any one got experience with/of the Flir C2 ?
    • CommentAuthorbhommels
    • CommentTimeOct 29th 2022
     
    Posted By: bxmanThanks everyone

    not withstanding
    Any one got experience with/of the Flir C2 ?

    Yes :-)
    The cameras are easy to use through the touch screen driven menu interface. They charge through a micro USB cable, which is also used for accessing the pictures, much like an USB drive.

    Domestic TI surveys generally do not need high spatial or high thermal resolution.
    FLIR use their 'image blending' technology where a visual camera is used to detect edges and transitions, and the thermal data is used to 'colour in' the picture, resulting in very acceptable pictures using a low resolution (=cheap) thermal sensor. BTW: the FLIR phone add-ons do the same, using the phone camera. I have no interest in FLIR BTW.
    • CommentAuthorTimSmall
    • CommentTimeOct 30th 2022 edited
     
    Only FLIR creates images using a combination of cheap high resolution optical sensors and cheap low res thermal sensors. This is because they managed to get a patent on it (despite it being a pretty obviously thing to do). The Seek cameras have thermal sensors with significantly better thermal resolution at the same sort of price as the lower res FLIR cameras.

    The FLIR cameras produce nice looking images but there's just less thermal info in there, so I'd recommend going for something higher resolution.

    The seek cameras will capture side-by-side thermal and optical images, but the patent means that they're not allowed to combine them. I find this good enough, but others may not.

    e.g. looking at the cheapest couple of phone add-on camera from both firms:

    FLIR ONE Pro LT has 4800 thermal pixels for £350
    FLIR ONE Pro has 19000 thermal pixels for £380

    Seek Compact has 32000 thermal pixels for £250
    Seek Compact Pro has 77000 thermal pixels (320 x 240) for £370 (or by direct import at £250).

    Resolution isn't the whole story, but without it you can miss important detail.
    • CommentAuthorNewbuild
    • CommentTimeNov 2nd 2022
     
    I wouldn't go below 320 x 240 pixels for a survey tool. The training is also very important.

    FLIR e4 is the best way to get this, despite the software limitations. Can be had sub £900.

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