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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

PLEASE NOTE: A download link for Volume 1 will be sent to you by email and Volume 2 will be sent to you by post as a book.

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    • CommentAuthorLeo
    • CommentTimeMar 8th 2007
     
    Can anybody point me to information on retro-fitting a domestic central heating system with multiple inputs; eg solar, woodburner and gas?
    I'm a way off starting on this but need to make immediate changes to an existing system and want to avoid work which will have to be undone at a future date.
    Also an analysis of the relative costs (financial and environmental) of electricity vs gas as the fallback for heat and DHW for this system would be useful - if anybody can point me to one.
    thanks
    •  
      CommentAuthornigel
    • CommentTimeMar 8th 2007
     
    gas is cheaper and cleaner than electricity by a very significant margin and electricity should not be used for heating and DHW from an environmental point of view.
    • CommentAuthorLeo
    • CommentTimeMar 12th 2007
     
    Thanks Nigel,
    do you know of any figures that express this margin?
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeMar 13th 2007
     
    Heat pumps can use electricity far more efficiently than direct electric heaters or storage heaters. I suspect that a heat pump with high COP will out perform gas both economically and ecologically.

    If you are going to keep the wet system that you have then step one would be to fit an accumulator tank. Then add heat sources to this. Solar may best be used to feed directly into the hot water store.

    There is plenty about all this on the old forum.
    •  
      CommentAuthornigel
    • CommentTimeMar 13th 2007
     
    Cherck out the enery prices page in this link:

    http://www.johnwilloughby.co.uk/" >Energy Prices

    Tony is right in that a heat pump will make more efficient use of electricity. However heat pumps are very expensive to install, have an unpredictable COP, requires UFH or larger radiators to deliver heat and are poor at DHW production.
    The COP often just about offsets the inefficiency of electricity production.

    If gas is available then it is definitely the cheaper and greener option.

    Installed costs for heat pumps are of the order of £1000 per Kw whereas you can get a 20Kw boiler for £1000.
    You could then spend the vast sums you have saved by improving insulation and airtightness.
    • CommentAuthorGuest
    • CommentTimeMar 13th 2007
     
    Thank you both,

    I get the feeling that realistically for a draughty single-skinned Victorian house I'm never going to get the sort of thermal efficiency that most contributors to this forum are aiming for, without completely gutting, sending piles of stuff to landfill and starting again. Which I neither want nor can afford to do.

    I've seen postings elsewhere suggesting that there's no point in looking at alternative/ renewable energy until you've achieved near perfect efficiency - but surely every kWh that comes from a renewable source is one that doesn't come from fossil fuels, and every kWh you make yourself is one you don't pay for.

    I suppose my question is; given that my house currently consumes about £700 worth of gas and £400 worth of electricity a year, and still feels cold in winter (this winter's been OK, but last was no fun); Even after I've reduced this by thorough draughtproofing, more efficient boiler etc: is a heat pump really going to make a significant dent in my reliance on gas?

    It strikes me that a solar system (or two?) for summer DHW/ electricity and a cleanburn woodburner (I'm in London & need to assess wood supply) for winter are possibly the best supplements for my situation.

    In a few weeks time I hope to have the time to do a complete energy requirement calc for the house - I should be better placed to balance things out then. Is there any free/ cheap software that might help with this?
    • CommentAuthorLeo
    • CommentTimeMar 13th 2007
     
    Sorry, that was me I somehow got signed out
    •  
      CommentAuthornigel
    • CommentTimeMar 13th 2007
     
    The point is that conservation is greener and cheaper than just using renewables.

    Every building will be unique in working out which is the best route to go. Heat Pumps might be fine in a a very well insulated home but a total waste of time and money in a draughty old vicarage.

    Your approach is right though to do a thorough assessment of the thermal properties of your house and see what can done cost effectively. When you have done that have a look at solar and other renewables.

    You should check that a woodburner is allowed as many urban areas are smokeless zones and you are not allowed a woodburner or probably any sort of biomass.
    • CommentAuthorsune
    • CommentTimeMar 26th 2007 edited
     
    Hi there Leo. I have a big old badly insulated house (it is listed so cannot do too much on that front either). I have found it fairly easy to make a heat storage / accumulator tank or whatever you want to call it. I had mine made by local metal workers from mild steel fitted with BSP fittings - total cost around £200. 2 wood burning stoves with backboilers heat the water in the tank up (plus a gas boiler if needed but I hardly ever use it) but you could attach more heat sources to it. The tank is of sufficient size - about 1000 x 400 x 400 - that it can also accumulate heat.
    A wood stove needs to be installed on an open system really (ie header tank in the loft). If your system is pressurized then you can get around this by making an indirect heat exchange tank - ie a tank that is part of the open system that has a coiled, finned, pipe (eg 30m long) that is part of the closed system. You can view further details of my tank system here:

    http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/stove-heat-accumulator-tank.html

    I also found great improvements from fitting door and window curtains, draught exclusion, etc.

    Hope that helps a little...

    Sune Nightingale
    • CommentAuthorSolar bore
    • CommentTimeMar 30th 2007
     
    Have you tried sealing each suspended floor (put mastic between wall and floor. also insulated under part of floor and in loft of bay window, lambs wool insulation got as much as possible over window a lot less heat loss.
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