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Renewable Energy: Which Wind Turbine?

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  1.  
    • CommentAuthorAguillar
    • CommentTimeJul 8th 2007
     
    Anyone with recommendations on wind turbines please?
    These days it seems there are options beyond the cheap Chinese versions or the expensive Proven ones...
    The [off grid] site is an exposed hillside, with planning permission for a 11m wind turbine and a projected average wind speed of 4.4m/s at 10m. No neighbours for a long way.
    Many thanks!
    •  
      CommentAuthornigel
    • CommentTimeJul 8th 2007
     
    You could also look at the Eoltec Scirocco 6Kw turbine. Better looking than the Proven.
    •  
      CommentAuthorted
    • CommentTimeJul 9th 2007
     
    There's plenty to choose from:

    Iskra - www.iskrawind.com
    Renewable Devices Swift - www.renewabledevices.com
    Quiet Revolution - www.quietrevolution.co.uk
    Fortis - www.fortiswindenergy.co.uk
    Westwind - www.westwind.com.au (now made in Northern Ireland)
    Southwest Windpower Skystream - www.skystreamenergy.com
    Bergey - www.bergey.com
    • CommentAuthorGBP-Keith
    • CommentTimeJul 10th 2007 edited
     
    The Proven is probably going to be the most reliable over the long term though. http://www.provenenergy.com

    Built in the UK even!
    • CommentAuthorRachel
    • CommentTimeJul 10th 2007
     
    another british make: www.futurenergy.co.uk
    •  
      CommentAuthorOlly
    • CommentTimeJul 11th 2007
     
    I went to see the factory where Quiet Revolution make their turbines last week. They have one running outside, it looked to be running well and certainly looks very elegant, especially when compared to the likes of Proven's offering. However I think the performance of their turbines is still relatively unproven (no pun intended), there really isn't much performance data available. They claim 10,000kWh/annum from their QR5 (6kW) turbine on a good site (5.9m/s av wind speed) with their target market being roof mounting these on tall buildings. Being vertical axis they should in theory perform better than equivalent horizontal axis turbines in more turbulent urban locations and I suspect it will, however the difference really needs to be quantified by some thorough testing.

    I've seen a lot of architects include the QR turbines in their sketches as they look very good, but there aren't many actually installed as of yet. There was also a planner there having a look at these, she seemed very keen on them and gave the impression that they might be easier to get through planning than many of the traditional horizontal axis alternatives.

    I think QR's capacity to manufacture these is not currently able to meet demand, so I think anyone wanting to order one could well be in for a long wait. Although QR are due to open a new factory in Wales this autumn to help meet demand.

    It certainly looks like a great product with a lot of potential, but only time will tell.
    • CommentAuthormoogaloo
    • CommentTimeJul 11th 2007
     
    I am in an urban setting and have currently rejected getting a winde turbine as I have not heard of any success stories in an urban location. The small B&Q windsave turbine has been slated as most say roof mounting these kind of turbines is a bad idea.

    I love the idea and look of the QR turbines, but currently the cost is prohibative.

    Do we think urban wind turbines will ever become a pratical solution using the vertical axis?
    • CommentAuthorAguillar
    • CommentTimeJul 17th 2007
     
    Thanks everyone!
    A local installer of Whisper and Proven units is visiting us this week, we shall see what advice they can offer!
    So far:
    Eoltec - a bit big for us!
    Iskra AT5-1 - only installed by accredited installers, only on their towers and very £££- not suitable for DIY
    Swift - haven't answered my email
    Quiet revolution - £££
    Fortis Paassat - not much power at low-med wind speeds, next size up too big
    Westwind - expensive but interesting
    Skystream - not certified in Europe yet
    Bergey - not very powerful but interesting
    Proven - we shall see
    Future energy - bit worried about them [they advertised a 36V model that doesn't exist, and still mention it in their documentation]

    Inclin 1500 or 3000 - maybe but no one has responded to my emails yet and someone has said that their turbines used to melt..
    Wren Mistral - not very powerful and distributor network seems to have poor knowledge of product
    WES5 - big but no response to emails again
    Cyclones 1000, 2000, 3000 no response to emails
    Whisper 175/500 possible, but have heard not suitable for windy sites
    • CommentAuthorJohn11668
    • CommentTimeJul 18th 2007
     
    Word is that none of the domestic sizes units are cost effective , but may help you sleep at night unless you sleep within earshot of one.
    • CommentAuthorbiffvernon
    • CommentTimeJul 19th 2007
     
    It's a physics thing - pwer is a function of the square of the diameter - so bigger is better. Unless you are off-grid or have some such need for your own supply, the most cost effective way of increasing wind energy electricity production is to switch your supplier to Ecotricity. If you have loads of spare money you could just give it to Dale Vince. Help go ZERO.

    http://www.newgreenjack.com/
    •  
      CommentAuthorOlly
    • CommentTimeJul 19th 2007 edited
     
    Posted By: biffvernonIt's a physics thing - pwer is a function of the square of the diameter - so bigger is better.

    Agreed.

    Of course power is also a function of the cube of the wind speed.

    P = 0.5 x rho x A x V^3

    P = Power (available)
    Rho = Air Density
    A = Swept Area (Pi*radius^2)
    V = Wind Speed

    Therefore location is just as important as size. In my opinion these small scale building mounted turbines are a waste of time, they are likely to massively under-perform as they get such poor airflow due to low average wind speeds and high levels of turbulence. There are also questions being raised about increased wear and decreased lifetimes of these units in turbulent locations.

    I visited the Hockerton Housing Project (zero net carbon) earlier this year, they have two 6kW (or thereabouts) wind turbines mounted on 25 metre (approx) masts which are mainly surrounded by open country side. As sites go it's very good, however they're still only getting about 700kWh/year per kW (peak) of installed capacity. Therefore around 4200kWh/year per turbine. This is a lot less than many manufacturers are claiming for turbines of this size.

    Take the Stuart Milne House built for Offsite 2007 on the BRE site, they've put 3 horizontal axis turbines on the roof and it's within about 100 feet of a building twice its height, so it comes as no surprise that they're generally either sitting idle or pointing in different directions trying to work out where the wind is coming from. I'm sure they'll claim that it's just a demonstration house, but it goes to show that you can't just plonk a wind turbine any old place and expect it to perform.

    IMO, at this point in time large offshore turbines make the most sense, as it really all comes down to economies of scale.
    • CommentAuthorthenewoil
    • CommentTimeJul 23rd 2007 edited
     
    Posted By: AguillarAnyone with recommendations on wind turbines please?
    These days it seems there are options beyond the cheap Chinese versions or the expensive Proven ones...
    The [off grid] site is an exposed hillside, with planning permission for a 11m wind turbine and a projected average wind speed of 4.4m/s at 10m. No neighbours for a long way.
    Many thanks!


    I have been learning a bit about wind turbines recently and it seems the vertial axis design is the up and coming one for smaller installations. There are a number of very interesting development is this type of design. Not least among these is a flexible rotor design by a young Irish student. Ireland is changing the planning laws to allow domestic installations without fuss.

    I have been detailing what I have been learning about wind turbines on my blog if you care to take a look: http://wood-pellet-ireland.blogspot.com/. There is a very interesting Chinese VAWT reported which can withstand up to 90mph winds and still operate!! The price is also reasonable - however it is an untried quantity.
    •  
      CommentAuthorKeith Hall
    • CommentTimeJul 23rd 2007 edited
     
    I've just discovered that the Proven does a lot of slow speed spinning without generating any power. I assume this is because it generates with what they or their installers call 'wild AC' and not dc which probably would generate something on all rotating movement. Am I assuming wrong?
    •  
      CommentAuthorted
    • CommentTimeJul 23rd 2007
     
    It's generating Volts without actually generating Amps, i.e. free-wheeling. Putting a load on the turbine at low speeds would just brake it to a halt so it must get above a threshold speed (measured by the 'wild' Voltage level) before the controller will try to pull any Amps from it. With a grid-tie system this is all down to the settings of the programmable parameters in the inverter - not sure exactly how it works with a battery system such as yours.
    • CommentAuthorGBP-Keith
    • CommentTimeJul 24th 2007
     
    Thanks Ted. Whatever it is doing at these low wind speeds, It is very frustrating.

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