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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

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    •  
      CommentAuthorKatymac
    • CommentTimeJun 14th 2008
     
    Converting a chapel into a nursery

    Want to replace the old rotten windows & have been told I need PP to do this

    Can anyone explain why?

    I am actually intending to change the windows but even if I replaced like with like (just double glazed) I would still need PP - it seems daft

    Is it because it is a commercial building? If so why?
    •  
      CommentAuthornigel
    • CommentTimeJun 15th 2008
     
    Normally only if its in a conservation area or if the building is listed do you need planning permission.

    I would have thought this would have formed part of your application for change of use from chapel to nursery.
    • CommentAuthorPete1951
    • CommentTimeJun 15th 2008
     
    Unfortunately you need planning permission and building control for replacement windows. This is so the planning authority can ensure the new windows meet the required thermal insulation levels.
    •  
      CommentAuthorKatymac
    • CommentTimeJun 15th 2008
     
    Nigel - there is no change of use they are both D1 (I think) which means non-residential institutions (I think)

    OK I can see doing it for insulation I understand that

    Now I just need to organise a bat survey & a flood survey to ensure changing the windows don't cause the chapel to flood/become infested with bats
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeJun 15th 2008
     
    Change of use is a seperate issue to the winows.

    You don't normally need planning permission to change/replace windows unless the building is listed or in a conservation area.

    You only need Building Control approval if you plan to install the new ones yourself. You don't need Building Control Approval if you use a company that's part of a "competent person scheme" (eg FENSA, CERTASS). They should give you a certificate after the work is done. You might need approval if the windows are structural.

    http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/genpub/en/1115315206263.html
  1.  
    Hi Katy, Which council is it? Most have easy to follow Planning downloads which detail exactly what is and is not required in terms of applying for consent. I agree with Nigel and CWatters re conservation area and listing

    Change of Use falls under bregs, not planning and is therefore not relevant unless you are changing use class, which you say you are not. You are correct that if there is no change of use then there is no requirement to upgrade for thermal requirements under this either. [Part L2B]

    Have you considered whether you will require an Energy Performance Certificate [EPC]? You will need one if you let after October. These will rate the building A-G in terms of its energy performance. These may be expensive. See http://www.cibsecertification.co.uk/clientsenergy-certificates-the-law
    •  
      CommentAuthorKatymac
    • CommentTimeJun 15th 2008
     
    OK

    Planning are insisting on permission - Great Yarmouth - will be investigating the site (tomorrow maybe)

    Who pays for the EPC - me or the landlord?
  2.  
    Don't know, the owner is responsible for it, but they may pass on the costs to those who let- remains to be seen as this is new
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeJun 15th 2008 edited
     
    Mike,

    "Change of Use falls under bregs, not planning"

    It's very definitly a planning issue if the use class is different but I think katy said both are use class D1.

    http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/genpub/en/1115314894558.html

    It might also be a building regs issue as well because the regs for a nursery are likely to be different to a chapel or worship.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeJun 15th 2008 edited
     
    Katy,

    "Who pays for the EPC - me or the landlord?"

    What sort of contract do you have with the landlord/owner?

    If this is a leasehold then normally you need the leaseholders permission for alterations. The lease will spell out who is responsible for maintenance. Typically it's the tennant, sometimes via a residents association or similar.

    If you are just renting the building and paying a market rent the landlord would pay for all structural repairs (eg new windows). If you have some kind of deal whereby you get use of the property at a discount in return for "doing it up" then be very careful. What stops him kicking you out the day after you finish spending thousands of pounds doing up his building for him? It all sounds like a very strange arrangement you have. Particularly as you have to ask who pays. The answer should be in the contract you have with him.
    •  
      CommentAuthorKatymac
    • CommentTimeJun 15th 2008
     
    Contract is still being written
    • CommentAuthorMike George
    • CommentTimeJun 15th 2008 edited
     
    Posted By: CWattersMike,

    "Change of Use falls under bregs, not planning"

    It's very definitly a planning issue if the use class is different but I think katy said both are use class D1.

    http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/genpub/en/1115314894558.html" rel="nofollow" >http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/genpub/en/1115314894558.html

    It might also be a building regs issue as well because the regs for a nursery are likely to be different to a chapel or worship.


    Yes, you are right, I do apologise. Completre brainmalfunction today [at least hopefully only today] :shamed:I have building regs on the brain at the moment. In my defence, one of the triggers for Part L improvements is where there IS a Material Change of Use, and this may include upgrading windows. The change of use itself is of course a Planning issue.

    EDIT So to clarify [in this instance] planning permission for change of use is not required, and neither is any Building regulation improvements [Part L] which would be triggered by such a change.

    However, Part L is pretty much 'catch all' these days, and where more than 25% of thermal elements [walls/floors/roof] are touched, they will need to be upgraded.

    Further improvements may also be recomended as part of the EPC paperwork
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeJun 16th 2008 edited
     
    Posted By: KatymacContract is still being written


    Sounds very risky. Do get that contract sorted with input from a good solicitor. I think I'd want to get some kind of shared ownership. Lets say the building is worth £X as it is. You are investing £Y in doing it up therefore you should own Y/X fraction of the property. Get your share in the property recorde with the land registry for example. Think about _all_ the eventualities such as what happens if the landlord dies. Would your contract die with him? Would his executors be able to kick you out?
    •  
      CommentAuthorKatymac
    • CommentTimeJun 16th 2008 edited
     
    The landlord is/will be the Methodist Church
    •  
      CommentAuthorrogerwhit
    • CommentTimeJun 16th 2008
     
    Replacement windows by a non-registered (FENSA, etc) installer are notifiable to building control, at least they are for residential property. The fee for such should be about £70 but one application can cover a number of windows. The main issue involved is thermal performance.

    Planning permission if required will cover the appearance, eg so that whatever it's used for, it still looks something like a chapel ...
    • CommentAuthorbiffvernon
    • CommentTimeJun 16th 2008
     
    >The main issue involved is thermal performance.
    Generally U-value less than 2.
    Also:
    Safety glass next to doors and if bottom of window is less than 800 mm above floor. Emergency egress in some situations. Ventilation.
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