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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

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    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeMar 29th 2013
     
    Not sure where to put this but...

    It seems that something is changing the mercury in the bulbs and it might be an unexpected nuclear reaction...

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2013/03/14/tiny-nuclear-reactions-inside-compact-fluorescent-bulbs/

    "Harmless low-energy nuclear reactions may be taking place routinely inside of compact fluorescent lightbulbs, according to a physicist whose theories have NASA researchers abuzz with the prospect of cheap, non-polluting energy."
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeMar 29th 2013 edited
     
    I was astonished by my holiday reading Brian Cox's http://www.amazon.co.uk/Why-Does-mc2-Should-Care/dp/0306819112/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1364553380&sr=1-5 that in every commonplace energy transaction, even boiling a kettle, change in E is accompanied by change in m - albeit disappearingly tiny change in m, because c2 is so huge. That happens not just in nuclear reactions, but all the time everywhere. So perhaps not surprising that new isotopes arise.
    • CommentAuthorrhamdu
    • CommentTimeMar 29th 2013
     
    I look at this from the point of view of PR rather than science.

    Key elements of the story:

    "harmless nuclear reactions"
    "mercury in CFL bulbs"

    Someone is trying to persuade us to abandon energy efficiency measures (CFLs) and accept nuclear power.

    Or it could be an early April fool joke, of course.
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeMar 29th 2013
     
    Curious and a bit interesting. Could be a signpost to something important but there's so much mad extrapolation in that article it's difficult to tell. I'm glad people are looking at this sort of thing but it's really a waste of time making such a fuss about it while it's so speculative.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeMar 29th 2013
     
    Posted By: Ed Davieswaste of time making such a fuss about it while it's so speculative
    Why the thought-control? It's really important to take in all such madcap ideas, so that one day one thing will mentally connect with another as clue to something poss quite different. Give creativity a chance - feed it with stuff to work on!
    • CommentAuthorrhamdu
    • CommentTimeMar 29th 2013
     
    I'll just add a word from the science point of view, too.

    Changes in isotope abundance are often indicative of chemical, rather than nuclear processes.

    Before the researchers can claim that nuclear reactions are removing, adding or transmuting particular mercury isotopes, they need to demonstrate that they really are accounting for all the mercury. It is quite possible that some mercury isotopes are preferentially absorbed into the bulb's solid components such as phosphor, glass and electrodes. Unless they grind up the whole bulb and analyse the solids as well as the gas, they have proved nothing. And of course, they need to be satisfied that no mercury has escaped from the bulb altogether - unlikely as that sounds.

    Sorry, I haven't been able to consult the original paper (behind paywall), so I can't say whether these basic issues have been handled by the researchers.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeMar 29th 2013
     
    Posted By: rhamduSomeone is trying to persuade us to abandon energy efficiency measures (CFLs) and accept nuclear power.

    I think it's more likely the LED brigade than the nuclear brigade if anybody's trying to persuade us of something.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeMar 29th 2013
     
    Posted By: rhamduChanges in isotope abundance are often indicative of chemical, rather than nuclear processes.
    Remember these guys:
    Fleischmann and Pons
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeMar 29th 2013
     
    LENR/Cold Fusion research is almost is respectable again. Employees of NASA, The Naval Research Laboratory in Washington, and MIT have all either written papers or spoken publicly in support of LENR in the past year or so... and haven't been fired :-)

    The next conference on Cold Fusion is being held at the University of Missouri...

    http://iccf18.research.missouri.edu/

    Mentions speakers from places like:

    Frascati National Laboratory, ITALY
    Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, JAPAN
    SRI International, USA
    MIT
    University of Illinois
    University of Marseille
    Naval Postgraduate School, USA

    Still quite a lot of interest for something that's meant to have died in the late 80's.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeMar 31st 2013
     
    Nuclear reactions take place all the time and at random.

    They can be triggered by for instance bombardment with alpha particles

    I can't see them taking place in fl tubes.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeMar 31st 2013
     
    As I understand it what they are saying is that the isotope ratio in a CFL after use is different to what was originally put in the bulb and that the change is bigger than other known method of "enrichment".
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeMar 31st 2013 edited
     
    http://cen.acs.org/articles/91/web/2013/02/Mercury-Fluorescent-Bulbs-Unique-Isotope.html

    "Scientists analyze the ratios of mercury isotopes to identify the source of the metal found in lakes, oceans, and the atmosphere. Although researchers know the unique ratios found in sources such as coal, they currently don’t have an isotope fingerprint for mercury found in compact fluorescent light bulbs (CFLs).

    Chris Mead of Arizona State University and his colleagues thought that chemical processes inside CFLs might produce a unique isotopic composition for mercury lodged in the bulbs’ glass. Previous studies have shown that when mercury vapor within a fluorescent bulb gets excited it not only generates light but also causes a small fraction of the mercury to become trapped in the bulb’s glass. This process might affect some mercury isotopes more than others, leading to a characteristic ratio of isotopes in the glass.

    With this in mind, the researchers turned on 14-watt consumer bulbs and kept them burning continuously for 1,700, 3,600, 10,000 or 16,000 hours. Afterwards, they broke each bulb and separated the mercury trapped in the glass from the remainder of the mercury. Using a multicollector inductively coupled plasma mass spectrometer, the team measured the isotopic composition of this trapped mercury. Then they compared the mercury isotope ratios in their samples to those from a known mercury standard. The difference between these sets of ratios represents a unique isotopic signal for the CFL mercury. Mead was surprised by the findings: The isotope ratios found in the CFL mercury were much larger than those found in other sources."
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeMar 31st 2013
     
    Did they do the ratios before they started?
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeMar 31st 2013
     
    I think I have created an atomic reator in my kitchen CFL while using a steamer.
    So all I need is a 2 kW wall paper striper to get the light flashing away, maybe if I get two of them wired together they will take turns. That's me low energy lighting sorted :wink:
    http://youtu.be/feefRhS-aeQ
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeMar 31st 2013
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: tony</cite>Did they do the ratios before they started?</blockquote>

    No idea but would hope so. Still can't find a free copy of the paper.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeMar 31st 2013
     
    Plymouth and the OU don't have a copy
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeApr 2nd 2013
     
    I've got a copy; whisper me an address if you want to do some private research.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeApr 2nd 2013
     
    I just skimmed it. AFAICT, the claim is that certain isotopes are preferentially absorbed into the glass, not that the overall balance of isotopes has changed.
    • CommentAuthorrhamdu
    • CommentTimeApr 2nd 2013
     
    Posted By: djhI just skimmed it. AFAICT, the claim is that certain isotopes are preferentially absorbed into the glass, not that the overall balance of isotopes has changed.


    As I suspected!
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeApr 2nd 2013
     
    Oh well.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeApr 2nd 2013
     
    Isotopes are known to react physically very slightly differently and in some circumstances the speed of a chemical reaction can vary for different isotopes so nothing new here.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeApr 2nd 2013
     
    Posted By: tonyIsotopes are known to react physically very slightly differently and in some circumstances the speed of a chemical reaction can vary for different isotopes so nothing new here.

    What's new is that the distribution of isotopes does not match the known theory. So there is need of a new theory. But no need for one that involves LENRs.
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