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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
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    • CommentAuthoraa44
    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2012
     
    The house that I am building has a suspended timber floor (in some places!) which was intended to have 200mm of mineral wool insulation between the I-joists. The plan was that there would be pieces of 12.5mm fibreboard sitting on the top edges of the bottom flange of the I-joists with the insulation resting on top.

    Due to a mistake on my part, the I-joists are only 195mm deep and so the distance from the top of the joist to the top of the fibreboard will only be about 135mm. I could probably compress 200mm of insulation in there but i don't think that it would have the same effect! As far as I can see, the best way round the situation would be to treat the joists as traditional solid joists and insulate down to the bottom of the joist.

    My question is whether there is any benefit in still using the fibreboard under the joists or whether a combination of netting and battens (perpendicular to the joists) would have a better effect. I am intending to put a plastic vapour barrier on top of the joists under the chipboard floor. The crawl space will be draughty (we're in Shetland) but should be pretty dry.

    If I go down the netting route, has anybody got any recommendations on what type of netting to use? Most things here get attacked by the salt air so I'm not sure that chicken / rabbit wire would last. Does strawberry netting last forever?

    Thanks for any input.
    Andrew
  1.  
    Don't use netting.I always used to, but now use breathable membrane, taped at joints and perimeters (or mastic and battened if the surface to tape to is dodgy). It's a second (or first?) line of defence on the air-tightness front, and won't (I think!) get eaten by the salt.

    Nick
  2.  
    The fibreboard provides a wind barrier which prevents "wind-washing" & thermal bypass type effects reducing the effectiveness of the insulation. It is also very "breathable" so it lets out any water vapour without causing condensation.

    You could replace it with breather membrane supported by battens perpendicular to the joists. Or you could run the breather membrane over the top of & perpendicular to the joists, down both side faces of each joist & across the bottom of each joist bay, so that it supports the insulation without needing battens. If you do this then make sure the membrane is stapled tight to the side faces of each joist to avoid providing a thermal bypass route. You should still fit the polyethylene air/vapour barrier on top of the insulation to protect the warm side.

    David
    • CommentAuthoraa44
    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2012
     
    Thanks for that. I am tempted to still fit the fibre board but attach it with battens underneath. I have been looking at a few local installations and the fibreboard seems to develop a pronounced sag after a few years!
  3.  
    You could use 100mm EPS beneath the joists.
    • CommentAuthoraa44
    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2012 edited
     
    I did think about using a different material for the insulation but I would be concerned that moisture might get trapped between the insulation at the bottom (e.g. EPS or Celotex) and the top of the joists. I was thinking that if I kept it as mineral wool then I would keep breathable materials around the joists.
    • CommentAuthorCav8andrew
    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2012
     
    Would wood wool boards work in this situation (bit of alliteration there). They have some insulation value, are breathable are weather resistant and structurally stable. I think 25mm is the slimmest board, up to 50mm.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2012
     
    I always use netting! and inorganic quilt, never a problem, always use air tightness/vapour barrier on the warm side of the insulation too.
    • CommentAuthorrhamdu
    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2012 edited
     
    comment edited - I hadn't read previous post properly
  4.  
    Re method as opposed to materials ... isn't there a thread on here somewhere showing someone's method of suspending the membrane in "U" sections to allow filling both between and under the joists?
    • CommentAuthorseascape
    • CommentTimeDec 4th 2012
     
    Yes there was - it gave a link to good pictures and advice - I think the link went to cambridge ecohomes or something like that.
    • CommentAuthoraa44
    • CommentTimeDec 5th 2012
     
    • CommentAuthorRick_M
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2022 edited
     
    That link appears to be dead. Update:

    https://cambridgecarbonfootprint.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/DIY-Underfloor-Insulation-2-Methods.pdf

    Here's the folding technique to get the insulation under the joists from that pdf. I assume an air barrier would be a better option than the netting used here as it would stop wind washing.
      IMG_20221216_134903.jpg
    • CommentAuthorRick_M
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2022
     
    I am about to embark on a similar job. My situation is a little different as I will have good access from underneath as there is a cellar of sorts underneath the floor (it goes from enough room to stand up in, down to enough height for crawling).

    Is the VCL essential in this situation? And my other question is regarding the gas central heating boiler in this space: As I'll be insulating above the boiler I'll be preventing the heat it gives off from reaching the groundfloor, is this significant?
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2022
     
    Hopefully a condensing boiler with a cold casing, insulate the pipes
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2022
     
    I like insulation going under the joists.

    I like vb on the warm side of the insulation and make it double up as an airtightness barrier trapping it behind skirtings. Loads of people miss it out so can’t be a big problem.
    • CommentAuthorRick_M
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2022
     
    Thanks, I'm also keen on going underneath joists. I saw in other threads that EPS boards underneath were recommended, seems like I'll be ok with either option.

    I'll be doing it from underneath in this case so I could install a VCL, but it would have to wrap around each joist and I wondered if that might cause problems and I'd be better off leaving it out.
    • CommentAuthorphiledge
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2022
     
    Posted By: Rick_M
    Is the VCL essential in this situation? And my other question is regarding the gas central heating boiler in this space: As I'll be insulating above the boiler I'll be preventing the heat it gives off from reaching the groundfloor, is this significant?

    If theres enough heat coming off the boiler/pipework that you can feel it, you may be better insulating the cellar and forgetting the insulating the floor. That would keep the boiler losses within the thermal envelope rather than locking them in the cellar or warming the ground!
    • CommentAuthorRick_M
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2022 edited
     
    I'll need to investigate what the ventilation requirements of the boiler are. Edit: it's a room sealed combi, so I don't think I'll be missing out on much heat by insulating above it.
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