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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

PLEASE NOTE: A download link for Volume 1 will be sent to you by email and Volume 2 will be sent to you by post as a book.

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    • CommentAuthorjackmccabe
    • CommentTimeJun 29th 2022
     
    We are carrying out internal wall insulation with insulated plasterboard on timber battens to our Victorian maisonette.

    The wall is ~400mm thick (quadruple brick?) but has areas where the brick work is in a bade state and where windows have been bricked up.

    So my question is about how to achieve air tightness behind the insulated plasterboard, I know a parge coat is usually recommended but considering the unevenness in the walls it would be quite costly with materials and time.

    So I was thinking of putting a breathable membrane behind the timber battens directly against the brick, is that a bad idea?
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJun 29th 2022
     
    Posted By: jackmccabeI know a parge coat is usually recommended but considering the unevenness in the walls it would be quite costly with materials and time.
    FWIW a parge coat on a rough surface doesn't need to use that much more material as long as you don't care about its appearance. You can just follow the roughness.

    I was thinking of putting a breathable membrane behind the timber battens directly against the brick, is that a bad idea?
    It sounds OK to me, as long as there are no sharp bits on the wall that might poke holes in the membrane.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeJun 30th 2022
     
    Parge for me, even with a slurry and broom to apply it
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJun 30th 2022
     
    Or nowadays perhaps one of the airtightness paints.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeJun 30th 2022
     
    Work nice but pricey
    • CommentAuthorjackmccabe
    • CommentTimeJun 30th 2022
     
    Thanks for the suggestions, looked at airtightness paint but worked out crazily expensive.

    Think we'll go with the membrane as it is just a lot easier and quicker right now.
    We've already put quite a few battens on the wall and pretty easy to take them off and just screw back over the top vs a parge coat.
    Also walls are very dusty and crumbly which would probably need sorting for a parge coat.

    It's just one floor we are currently working on but I will look to parge coat the next floors when we IWI them.
    • CommentAuthorJonti
    • CommentTimeJun 30th 2022
     
    The phrase 'act in haste, rue at leisure' comes to mind. Yes, a parge layer might take a little longer but in 6 months when all is done you won't remember the extra week it took to do it. However, in 5 years when you are sitting in a draught you will wonder why you didn't do all you could to get it right. The biggest lesson I have learnt over the various builds/renovations I have done is it is ALWAYS worth taking the extra time and effort to get it as 'right' as you can.
  1.  
    I was not going to wade in on this one, but I will, to back up or follow on from Jonti's comment. @jackmccabe, you have already said the wall ''has areas where the brick work is in a bade state and where windows have been bricked up". While I accept that an airtight membrane is likely to be airtight (!) I would, particularly on a wall as you describe, be very wary of it not being sealed at the edges. If it is not you run the risk of thermal by-pass which could, at worst, be about as bad as if you had not put on an air-tightness layer. @djh and @tony are right - the parge coat does not have to be flat. You'll have to make adjustments to your battens whether or not you have a parge coat.

    If we cannot persuade you away from the membrane can I make a suggestion? Make a 'picture frame' of parge coat around the perimeter and, using an approved primer and good quality air-tightness tape, tape the membrane in to the 'picture frame'. You then also have an 'air-tightness edge' to work to when you come to IWI the rooms below or above.

    Incidentally have you seen the latest (English - don't know where you are) gov't guidance on IWI? I don't agree with everything they say but their suggestion, where you are *not* using a vapour-open insulant such as wood-fibre, is that there should be a *min 25mm ventilated* cavity behind the insulant. I have always understood that if a ventilated cavity is left it should be min 50mm. I have not yet come up against a BCO invoking the guidance but it may come. Have you had a condensation risk assessment done? (If I am teaching you to suck eggs, please accept my apologies!).
  2.  
    Sorry, another one:

    I don't like insulated plasterboard because it does not have a VCL at the joints. If you are using battens why not use 'raw' insulant, tape the foil (which I assume it has) as VCL, then fix plasterboard over. *If you want to be really obsessive re the VCL, gun each screwhole for the insulation fixing full of silicone. (The alternative view to take is that a hole with a screw in it is not really a hole. I think the former is safer!)
  3.  
    I definitely agree with all your points although at this point we have put all the timber battens on the wall, so parge coating would be even more difficult at this stage.

    We are doing the insulated plasterboard on 25mm battens as specified by Kingspan, who did the condensation risk analysis. They did not mention anything about a parge coat or any air tightness membranes so it was sort of a last minute thought.

    As for the issues sealing the membrane I will make sure it is well taped and it will be taped to the ceiling/roof membrane and I will use blowerproof to paint down between the joists.

    Unfortunately a lot of issues arise not just due to lining builders up and schedules, but the fact they look at me like I am insane when I say a lot of these things. I will probably look to do the rest of the floors using breathable insulation like wood fibre and get someone in who is a bit more aware of the kinds of things I am trying to do.

    Thanks for all suggestions and help.
  4.  
    Good luck with this 'phase'. If you do decide to go for wood-fibre there is quite a bit of experience on here, so we can talk to you about good points, practicalities, quirks, etc. ...and if you are not a plasterer we can probably also tell you how easy and 'forgiving' the lightweight lime plasters can be to use.
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