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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

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    • CommentAuthorKath466
    • CommentTimeOct 16th 2022
     
    Hello all, first timer on here and and new to retrofit. I began this journey so I could future proof my old stone house and afford the bills after retirement, I'm now concerned this struggle will begin before I reach that age.
    The internal walls have been covered with lime mortar quite deeply in parts due to the random thickness of the stone and are to be covered in wood fibre. However I have been unable to find suitable insulation for the different floors inc. suspended, solid concrete, a ruined encaustic tile hall unsure what is below, and asphalt covering on the kitchen floor again unsure of what's below. There is no cellar.
    I cannot face excavating as I live here and have three big dogs so couldn't inflict them on anyone else.
    Can I use impermeable insulation when walls will be vapour permeable, if so, what would you recommend?I've read that impermeable insulation will force moisture up the walls.
    I only have 70 mm to insulate and line but needs it to be fairly thin as anything deeper will interfere with the first step on the stairs.
    Can I put the insulation on top of the encaustic tiles or do I remove them first.
    I would prefer impermeable as will need vinyl flooring because of the dogs.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeOct 16th 2022
     
    Hello Kath and welcome to the forum. :bigsmile:

    I'm not a retrofit expert but I can start the discussion of with probably a lot of questions and a few suggestions.

    First off, roughly where are you? And is your property exposed to winds and especially wind-driven rain or is it fairly sheltered etc? Those things can make a difference to what is suitable.

    When you say 'internal walls' do you mean the walls between rooms, or the internal face of the external walls? How old is the house and is the external surface stone or something else (e.g. render)? A little bit more information about the history and the construction might be helpful. Do the suspended floors use timber joists, and are they on the ground floor or an upper floor? (How many floors are there?) Presumably the concrete floor is on the ground floor and is more recent than the house itself. Are the floors approximately level and what's the ceiling height? i.e. how much height could you lose to insulation on the top of the floor.

    You say the encaustic tile floor is ruined. I'd be tempted to take up at least some of them to get an idea what is below. If some of the tiles can be brought back to a reasonable state then you might be able to sell them to offset some of the cost of your refit.

    I wouldn't let the height of your first stair step dictate how you insulate. I'm sure the stairs could be adjusted if necessary.
  1.  
    in addition to djh questions, any planning restrictions, conservation areas or listing to get in the way? Is it semi or detached? Skilling ceilings or flat?

    You say you have a ruined encaustic tile hall - do you want to keep the tiles for their aesthetic value? How bad is the ruination? It might be possible to get a concrete polisher to renovate the surface.
    • CommentAuthorKath466
    • CommentTimeOct 16th 2022 edited
     
    Hi, thanks for responding, I live in Ramsbottom, bury, end stone terrace on a main road , so not isolated re: wind and rain from all sides. It’s not listed or in a conservation area.
    The lime mortar is covering the the internal side of external walls.
    Internal walls are brick as are chimney breasts. I have removed 2 brick chimney breasts from upstairs room in outrigger for space and intend to do same in kitchen beneath.
    House was built in 1875, and has original double outrigger, random stone at the rear and dressed stone to front and gable end. No external render. House has a ground and first floor.
    Slated, hip roof. Slate roof on outrigger.
    All floors mentioned are ground floor, Suspended floor with timber joists is at front, facing NE. Concrete floor is in back living room and kitchen with kitchen floor being covered in Ashfelt.
    Encaustic tiles in hall which runs alongside the gable, they are on dirt, I think, as when vestibule was removed you could see some dirt, it wasn’t concrete but entire hallway floor sounds solid. Tiled floor has channels cut into it by previous owner so I thought they were ruined, didn’t think about selling them so will look into that.
    Ground floor ceilings are 10 ft. Internal door frames have been lowered as have lintels 1-2 bricks above current door frame/lintels .
    Hall and front room floor board downstairs are same level. Back living room concrete floor and kitchen Ashfelt floors are same level but they are approx 2-3 inches higher than hallway floor, presumably as original floor (flags?) was covered with concrete at a much later time.
    First floor ceiling have been lowered approx 40 cms and is now completely filled with Thermofloc and approx 400-500mm of glass wool on loft floor. This made an unbelievable difference to the upstairs temperature last winter.
    Hope this is enough
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2022
     
    Posted By: Kath466I live in Ramsbottom, bury
    I was born in Rawtenstall; my grandmother used to live in what sounds a fairly similar house in Bacup, a long time ago.

    Ground floor ceilings are 10 ft. Internal door frames have been lowered as have lintels 1-2 bricks above current door frame/lintels .
    It sounds like you have plenty of height to put some insulation on the floor, unless there's some aesthetic reason to preserve all the height. The original doors may have been taller and the openings then reduced to fit modern standard sized doors? But at least you'll be able to raise them up a bit fairly easily.

    First floor ceiling have been lowered approx 40 cms and is now completely filled with Thermofloc and approx 400-500mm of glass wool on loft floor. This made an unbelievable difference to the upstairs temperature last winter.
    Hope this is enough
    Are you missing a smiley? :cool: 800 mm or so of insulation! We have 450 mm or so of cellulose in our roof and that's fine. Sounds like you had plenty of height upstairs as well.

    I'd be tempted to use EPS on the ground floor, with a screed or screeding boards over the top. But I'm not an expert. With IWI on the walls (and wood fibre sounds like a good choice) you should have no problems at the floor-wall and wall-roof junctions.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeOct 20th 2022
     
    Uncertain about asphalt floors, are they glassified bitumen? Asphalt would be very unusual as it dents where weight is applied
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2022
     
    Posted By: Kath466I can use ESP on both concrete and ashfelt floors?
    I think so, but Tony has far more practical exerience than me. EPS comes in a variety of grades (i.e. compressability). We have carbon EPS 70 (the carbon makes it very dark grey and improves the thermal performance) under most of our concrete slab but around the perimeter we have normal white EPS but in EPS200 grade (IIRC, might be 300). That's to support the weight of a concrete ringbeam that supports the wall, floors, and roof without crushing. The EPS sits on sand because the EPS spreads out point loads over a bigger area, so I don't think asphalt would be a big problem. Another key is to make sure there is a rigid layer over the top of the EPS. In our case it's a chunky reinforced concrete slab but a simpler screed should work, or screed boards. It needs to be strong enough to take whatever's the heaviest point load you'll be imposing and spread that load so the pressure on the EPS won't deform it very much over the larger area. Of course the screed needs to not break whilst doing that! If you use boards, make sure that the edges can't move up and down relative to one another. Two layers of plywood is one possibility.

    Yes I really do have that much insulation in lowered upstairs ceiling and loft
    Well good for you putting it all in. It will stand you in good stead.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2022
     
    Oil based products can dissolve polystyrene which causes it to shrink back I think
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