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Building Regulations and Standards: Fire stop on ventilation between rooms

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  1.  
    • CommentAuthorRobinB
    • CommentTimeMay 4th 2010
     
    Hello all
    I've put some 150mm pipe into the poured concrete walls between bedrooms and sitting room. Idea is that warm air can travel from stove in sitting room to the adjacent unheated bedrooms (on a floor about 2m above the sitting room) . All habitable rooms have to be protected by 30 minute firedoors. Question is what grille or similar can I put over these pipes to provide a regulation-friendly seal in case of fire/smoke? Unfortunately I don't have the right words for this which is hindering my search.

    By the way I had thought of inline fans too but I now think the MVHR set up, and the fact that heat rises, will draw the warm air in the right direction.

    thanks
    RobinB
  2.  
    Posted By: RobinBQuestion is what grille or similar can I put over these pipes to provide a regulation-friendly seal in case of fire/smoke? Unfortunately I don't have the right words for this which is hindering my search.
    Try "intumescent fire collars". They're designed to fit in or around the pipe just behind the grille.

    David
    • CommentAuthorRobinB
    • CommentTimeMay 4th 2010
     
    Thanks for giving me the vocabulary I need. I've had a look. Any chance they'd still work on an open ended pipe? See attached pic - with child's hand poking through from bedroom to sitting room.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeMay 4th 2010
     
    Noise transmission is going to be a problem too -- any chance that you could run another pipe? -- who designed it?
    • CommentAuthorRobinB
    • CommentTimeMay 4th 2010
     
    Yes I think noise (in either direction) may put paid to the idea but I wanted to try it out. I decided to put the pipes in when the ICF wall was poured as it was very simple and cheap to do. I was thinking worst case is I just forget it and fill it in with foam. So you could say I designed it.

    Do you think those intumescent collars would work in this case?

    We have discussed pulling warm air to colder parts of the building via pipes/tubes before on GBF and noise transmission hasn't been raised as an issue as I remember.
  6.  
    Posted By: RobinBThanks for giving me the vocabulary I need. I've had a look. Any chance they'd still work on an open ended pipe?
    I have no experience of using them, but I've seen two main types: some fit around the outside of a plastic duct & are desgined to squash it in the event of a fire; others are designed to fit inside a concrete/metal duct & fill it in the event of a fire. It doesn't look like there's room to fit one outside the existing duct, so I'd look at what you can fit inside. Perhaps you'll need to replace the duct with a metal one, but I'd get some advice first. Have you asked Building Control or thought of asking for a Home Fire Risk Assessment from the Fire Service? They're normally free of charge, but I'm not sure that this applies to building sites. In any case, it can't hurt to ask & they probably have some useful advice.

    http://www.fireservice.co.uk/safety/index.php

    David
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeMay 5th 2010
     
    You can also buy fire dampers -- mechanical choke type valves that link to fire system.
    • CommentAuthorbarney
    • CommentTimeMay 7th 2010
     
    What you need to stop fire and hot smoke is an intumescent transfer grille.

    The pipe is protected generally as it's cast into a mass concrete element so all you want to do is stop fire and smoke breaching the compartment wall via the duct.

    The intumescent grille provides a sensible free area to reduce resistance to the flow of air under buoyancy but is packed with an expanding material that is senitive to heat. In the event of a fire or high temperture near the grille this material expands and closes the opening. They are usually one shot and need replacing after "use".

    Of course, this type of device won't operate under cold smoke conditions so you may also need an "in duct" fire damper linked to a smoke detector. This will close under spring pressure if the alarm signal is present, preventing the passage of smoke to the next compartment.

    Domestic houses are usually a single compartment though so you may not actually need anything

    Regards

    Barney

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