I think the priorities or the perception of , have changed

Energy efficiency to reduce environmental negatives now rates above trying to specifying materials of lower environmental impact

I presume the change from the 80s green surge is Climate change and Carbon reduction are now considered the big nasties rather than all the other toxic polutants floating about as a result of our day to day actions .
Personally I'm unsure if this new leaning is the correct one,

All part of that no-so-subtle change in the forum I was talking about a few months ago.

Expanding foam used to be the Devil's sperm.

Based on a Time Dependant Cost Benefit Analysis, some like them, other hate them, bu tboth will use them to support thier own viewpoint.

Personally I think reducing overall energy is the best way to go rather than reducing concentrated toxins. The beauty of anything that is concentrated is that you are dealing with something that is physically smaller and generally you know where it is.

The big environmental disasters tend to be brought about by bad work practices or outright crime that goes unpunished, tackling them is a different issue.

Biff, welcome back! If you could send technical details of how to use thermal underwear in place of expanding foam I shold be very grateful. Does one have to change the nozzle on the gun?...

What about its very short longevity?

Interesting thread. Another point to note, I think, is that many of the chemicals that made PVC so unpleasant in the past have been slowly phased out. I don't think that the types of PVC being produced today are as bad as they used to be.

Even Devil's sperm has its uses.

On the basis that the tide can't now be turned, noxious materials aside, my argument against upvc is the look of the windows that have blighted, and continue to blight, houses (especially terraces) that could have been treated with more sensitivity had the planning system been awake to the potential for so much damage. Those dreadful fixed-over-top-hung monstrosities fitted to "comply with building regs" and fire escape have destroyed whole streets and utterly removed all character from towns.

upvc windows and doors shouldn't be allowed to be fitted into houses built before 1940. And no one should be allowed to replace even a post-1940 sash window with a upvc one that isn't also of the vertical sliding type.

I agree with many of the statements here regarding aesthetics, there are loads of sore-thumb terraced house PVCu installations around here (Brighton/Hove). In other situations avoiding PVCu looks aesthetically poor (e.g. I've bought a semi where practically the whole building already has PVCu).

As a material it's not super-fantastic, but so long as it doesn't end up being incinerated it's not too bad - recycling seems to be getting a lot more widespread in recent years, with the majority of local window companies recycling their profile offcuts (they get paid for them these days!), and also post-consumer windows (same companies pick them up, but they don't pay out for these AFAIK).

A large chunk of PVC waste in the form of electrical wiring (flex and fixed) ends up being incinerated, or in landfill (this despite it being a lot more readily recyclable - as most scrap metal merchants will purchase this - although a surprising number of people don't know this, and many sparkies don't bother, just chuck it in general waste!) - a lot more so than from windows I'd guess.

In summary:

PVC(u) - so so
Chucking it away or burning it - very bad
Any cost-effective way of preventing CO2 - good



Out of interest, alternatives to PVC wiring are also available (indeed PVC fixed wiring is illegal in Denmark I think) - does anybody here spec them? What about internal drainage pipes? Even most credit cards are made from the stuff, and bazillions of those end up in domestic waste. Difficult to get away from the stuff, but managed correctly it's not too bad.

Don't blame the wood for rotting - blame the paint. Non-breathable paint is like a plastic bag - you'd rot if you dressed in one instead of a gore-tex jacket.

Some folk talk about man's impact on the planet being so great that we are now in a new geological Period called the Anthropocene. I disagree. Our time will be so short it will not merit a Period but will just be marked by the Anthropocene Boundary Layer, a thin horizon found in sedimentary rocks worldwide, characterised by a unique assemblage of polymers, the derivatives of plastic windows.

And thank-you Nick, one could stuff high-priced merino wool knitwear into cracks in buildings but I find using them proximally to the heat source is more cost-effective.

Is part of the problem the design of windows.
We make PVC/Aluminium that look similar to existing timber ones that have been used for hundreds of years.
A few buildings are made in glass, doors in shops are often frameless. Isn't it about time that the house designers stopped mimicking in newer materials and started to become more creative in the domestic marketplace.
Never seen a bit of glass warp, discolour with age and getting dirt of is pretty easy.

Posted By: JoinerEeeek!

I second that

Posted By: JoinerNO!!

And get damaged if not broken far too easily and often.